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I dont' think there is a debate on the fact that the battle took place "near Gardiki castle", since it's said in the Chronicle of Morea. The uncertainty concerns wich pass exactly in the vicinity of mount Hellenitza is the "makryplagi" of the text, since there are 3 places wich can have this name: the pass of Derveni, the pass of Tourkoleika, and the pass between Thouria and Poliani. The question is discussed in "Forgotten castle of medieval Messenia" (M.Breulliot), she states the place is the pass of Tourkoleika, but that Mr.Moundras (a Greek scholar) thinks it's the 3rd pass (Thouria-Poliani) (in "Praktika of Peloponnesian studies 1975). These places are not far away, and since Gardiki castle is indicated on the map, it can be useful for the reader to have a good idea of the localisation.--Phso2 (talk) 15:09, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
OK, thanks for a thorough and enlightening reply. I'll re-add it immediately. Cheers, Constantine ✍ 15:20, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome. I must congratulate you for the serioussness of the articles you write and the sourcing. I've have just had a look at GoogleMap, perhaps there is a discordance between the (few?) scholars who are interested in this subject : on one hand, Breuillot, quoting A. Bon, Buchon, Valmin, Sfikopoulos, identifies the place near Tourkoleika with Gardiki castle and the city of Ampheia (it can also be found in J.Longnon's works). On the second hand, there are 2 villages near Thouria with the names Kato and Ano Ampheia, and a "Moni Gardikiou" which is refered to by Breuillot as "Moni paleokastrou", on the site of the ancient city Thouria, but she doesn't discuss wether it could be another localisation for Gardiki castle (but she mentions the hypothesis of Moundras that the battle took place between Thouria and Poliani), so this is perhaps a second localisation hypothesis for Gardiki and the makryplagi of the battle (but I don't have real sources for this second hypothesis, the ones I have have apparently no doubt about the "north" localisation)...Anyway, the place on the WP map corresponds to the "tourkoleika" hypothesis.--Phso2 (talk) 16:17, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the appreciation. If you want to add or correct anything, be my guest :) Especially if you can add more details from the Chronicle of the Morea, it'd be appreciated. I do understand the text by and large, but by no means enough to use it as a primary source, and I cannot get my hands on an English translation. On Gardiki, I based the site on a map I had scanned some years ago from a Greek book on the medieval Morea. I don't even remember which book it was. If I get around to writing an article on Gardiki Castle, your info will be more than useful, thanks again. Best regards, Constantine ✍ 19:42, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
