Talk:Chldran

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Artsakh

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Historical demographics[edit]

@Revolution Saga: @Laurel Lodged: @Armatura: @RaffiKojian: Hey! I wondered if any of you guys know anything about the history of this village? From this pre-war demographics map of Nagorno-Karabakh [1] it looks like the village of Chldran is marked as having an Azerbaijani majority, however, when I've read about the village it seems dozens of inhabitants took part in WW2, all having Armenian names [2] and the Armenian Wikipedia page for the village describes volunteer formations being formed in the village during the First Nagorno-Karabakh War [3], do you know if the village was historically Armenian-majority - that the map is incorrect in this regard or if it was a mixed village perhaps? AntonSamuel (talk) 13:09, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@AntonSamuel: Hi Anton, just saw this. According to Sergey Melkumyan's book, this was a wholly Armenian inhabited village in the Soviet period, which is stated implicitly. The implication of reading the entry for the village is that it was wholly Armenian since it was founded (or refounded) in 1905.RaffiKojian (talk) 11:26, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi AntonSamuel, this cliche sentence about "Azerbaijani majority" was added to lots of villages in Artsakh and Armenia by one or two users with pretentious editing style. The citation itself is problematic, the cited source does not specifically say what the sentence the citation is attached to says, the user deduced it himself/herself from the map which itself if taken from another source... I think this should be removed as simple a case of OR. --Armatura (talk) 18:12, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well to be fair, I've used the same map when doing research about historically Armenian-majority population villages in Artsakh/NK - I think the map is relatively accurate overall, but that it could feature some mistakes is perfectly possible, also - in some places of the region there are many villages clustered together while the map doesn't feature more than one dot to represent them and it doesn't feature all of the smaller villages. AntonSamuel (talk) 18:51, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That is an inherent problem with maps - one may not tell the details on low resolution maps, unless the details are stated in written form. If we for a moment imagine the sentence is correct, it is at least undue weight for it to be in the lead, hence moved to demographics. I think it has to be deleted unless a better source is provided. --Armatura (talk) 20:36, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion, there needs to be more evidence than just one map to assert that the village had an Azerbaijani-majority population. For example, this Azerbaijani toponymic dictionary does not say anything about Chldran having an Azerbaijani population, but instead claims it was settled by Armenians who migrated by Turkey in 1828. I cannot find any Azerbaijani source referring to the village's Azerbaijani population (although this is limited by my language skills, maybe someone with better knowledge of the language can do a search); they all seem to repeat the above claim. Revolution Saga (talk) 12:45, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]