Talk:Circassians

Refs

• J Verkholantsev Renaissance Anecdotes? Caucasian Slavs and Slavic Caucasians in Sixteenth Century Historiography and Linguistics1 Speculum Slaviae Orientalis: Московия, Юго-Западная Русь и Литва в период позднего Средневековья. Russia, ЛитРес, 2020.

Bookku (talk) 14:59, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Da Vinci

Good morning.

Adding a sentence about Da Vinci's mother might be added. See under https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterina_di_Meo_Lippi

Thanks for any considerations Roberto.peretta (talk) 09:06, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Dance

The picture used in the culture section of this article with stated description of Circassian sword dance is also used in the article about Ossetians with the stated description of Ossetian folk dancer (whether the dance is Circassian or Ossetian is not stated there). So is the dance Ossetian or Circassian? I think this is confusing and needs to be addressed. It needs more clarifications. — Relahs (talk) 08:53, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Mistaken Genes

The "cited" G2-YY are neither contained in the link nor in the isogg-tree and must be a mistranslation of the Russian source!!! Pleas correct!!. Thanks.HJJHolm (talk) 07:44, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Biased editing - Clarifying religious diversity within the community

Dear Wikipedia Community,

I would like to bring your attention to an ongoing issue concerning the editing behavior of a user without an account (that IPv6 address which keeps removing content) who has been vandalizing and focusing on removing information related to Christianity and paganism in the Circassians article. This persistent action runs contrary to established facts and sources that acknowledge the presence of these religions among Circassian communities. The Circassians article itself acknowledges the presence of Christian and pagan elements among Circassians, as substantiated by sources. Furthermore, I myself come from a Christian Circassian community.

Moreover, the user has made unfounded claims that non-Northwest Caucasian peoples such as Chechens, Ossetians, and Ingush are direct relatives of Circassians. Despite this assertion, there is no supporting evidence about these other peoples listing Circassians as direct relatives. Why else aren't Circassians listed as relatives in articles about Chechens, Ingushs or Ossetians? This discrepancy further highlights the issue with the biased editing we've been experiencing.

It seems that the user is intolerant of acknowledging diverse religious practices within the Circassian community and insists on portraying Circassians as exclusively Muslim. I believe this narrow-mindedness goes against the collaborative spirit and neutrality policy of Wikipedia.

Also, the inclusion of non-Northwest Caucasian languages like Arabic or Russian in the Circassian infobox by the user, despite not being indigenous to the Circassian ethnicity, leads to confusion. Although many Circassians in the diaspora may speak these languages, they do not hold ethnic significance for Circassians. After all, English, which is likely spoken by almost every Circassian, is also missing from the infobox, why? It appears the author aims to establish a tenuous connection between different peoples where one may not exist.

In order to address these concerns, I would like to open a discussion about the following:

- The importance of accurately representing religious diversity within the Circassian community in Wikipedia articles.

- The need for factual evidence to support any claims made in Wikipedia articles related to Circassians and their relations with other Caucasian peoples.

- The role of neutrality and objectivity in Wikipedia editing, particularly when dealing with sensitive historical and cultural topics. Possible measures to prevent future biased vandalism and promote factual accuracy within the Circassians article.

I encourage all members of the community to contribute their insights, opinions, and expertise on these matters. By engaging in a productive and respectful dialogue, we can work towards an improved and more accurate representation of Circassian history and culture while upholding Wikipedia's editorial standards. Thank you for your attention and engagement. Flux500 (talk) 07:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your effort, but do not remove sourced content without a valid reason. See WP:OR 2600:1012:B114:8BE9:F5B5:955C:CDBD:9648 (talk) 14:53, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

I have valid reasons.

1. It's a fact that Circassian Christians and pagans exist. They're a minority (as I stated in my edits) but they exist.
2. Other North Caucasian languages are not related to Northwest Caucasian. This is the current linguistic consensus. Listing other ethnicities like Karachais, Chechens or Ingushs as relatives because there's a genetic overlap doesn't make any sense. On that basis, Greeks and Turks are related ethnic groups as well. How come Circassians aren't listed as relatives in Chechens, Ingush people or Avars (Caucasus) then?
3. What are you trying to achieve by listing L2 languages in the infobox of Circassians? They're not the ethnic languages of Circassians. Why not list English there as well?

Flux500 (talk) 12:49, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

I feel that at a minimum Turkish and Arabic should be listed as second languages of the diaspora because the vast majority of the Circassian diaspora resides in Turkish and Arabic speaking nations / areas. And what do you mean what am I trying to achieve by listing the second languages? The article had listed their second languages for a long period of time with stability and status quo until your reckless editing… 2600:1012:B114:8BE9:D881:50B2:A53B:C6A3 (talk) 16:27, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

The assertion that these languages are ethnically connected to the Circassians is implausible, given that they are not indigenous to the region. Including them as a language of the Circassians is therefore misleading and confusing. Flux500 (talk) 21:12, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

You make a good point here. 2600:1012:B114:8BE9:FD13:BDB5:831:C63F (talk) 01:38, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

From the Chechens article: “Overall, tests have shown consistently that Chechens are most closely related to Ingush, Circassians and other North Caucasians, occasionally showing a kinship to other peoples in some tests. Balanovsky's study showed the Ingush to be the Chechens' closest relatives by far.” So genetic relation should be completely blown over? I feel that the bare minimum there should be some mention of Circassians’ genetic relation to Chechens somewhere in the article, as it is in the Chechens article perhaps? 2600:1012:B114:8BE9:D881:50B2:A53B:C6A3 (talk) 16:38, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

As previously stated, there is a cultural and genetic connection between Circassians and Chechens. This is acknowledged by all parties. However, the section "related ethnic groups" in information boxes is used as a concise list of related ethnic groups that share a common language family or else Turks should be listed as relatives of the Greeks. This article already states that Circassians are genetically related to other Caucasian peoples but there's more to ethnicity other than genetics and listen non-Northwest-Caucasian speaking groups as relatives is simply misleading. 134.101.240.11 (talk) 16:55, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Like the user before me correctly said, while there is a genetic connection between the two groups, there is no linguistic connection, which is the single most important attribute of an ethnic group. Flux500 (talk) 21:14, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

First of all, you need to calm down, my friend. You seem to be letting yourself get quite upset and worked up over nothing

My bad, I wasn’t aware that the “related ethnic groups section” refers to linguistic relation and not genetic/ethnic/cultural. How about I move the sources genetic relation to Chechens section in the part where the article already states Circassians are genetically related to other North Caucasian peoples? 2600:1012:B114:8BE9:FD13:BDB5:831:C63F (talk) 01:43, 25 May 2024 (UTC)