Talk:Ebrahim Raisi

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Raisi's death update[edit]

President Ebrahim Raisi has died in a helicopter crash on 19 May, 2024 around 10:00 GMT. He was flying in an Bell 212 when about 30 minutes into the flight, officials lost contact with the aircraft. At about 1:30 GMT, rescuers spotted the wreckage from a distance from about 2 kilometers (1.2 miles) from the city of Varzaqan and then took about an hour to reach it. At the crash site, there were no signs of life, including the president's. Ayatollah Mohammad Ali Al-e Hashem, Ali Khamenei's representative in East Azerbaijan was actually alive for about an hour after the crash in which he made contact with the president's head of office before he died at about 11:00 GMT. There is no current known cause for the crash, except for maneuvering difficulties in heavy fog. Currently, there is no known successor to the president, but Mohammad Mokhber has been declared the current acting president of Iran. Although, Mokhber can only be the acting president for a maximum time period of 3 months before a new permanent replacement has to be nominated and approved by the Iranian Parliament.

Descent claim[edit]

Raisi CLAIMS descent, this isnt a confirmed thing, Sayyids claim paternal descent from Husayn is more appropriate to add, most muslims do not believe he is, especially Sunnis and many Shia, its a familial and common claim for clergy leadership. Supporters emphasise it for political/religious purposes. Urge a change to show claim as it implies he descends from the Prophet Muhammed's grandson without dispute. Ask for a kind ammendment.

Ultra conservative according to whom?[edit]

According to some jewish-american press he is ultra-conservative, according to the rest of the world he is a muslim


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2022/09/13/a_brief_history_of_the_butcher_of_tehran_579496.html

Ebrahim Raisi started his career in 1981 as the prosecutor of Karaj and Hamadan Provinces. He played a leading role in persecuting minorities, especially the Bahais, and political opponents that left untold numbers dead, tortured, and jailed. 2600:4040:5F0A:5500:CC14:BEFE:BD7B:614B (talk) 22:46, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Motahari is not a university, it is an Islamic madreseh. Please correct. 2603:8000:107:DFE8:F57E:B1A6:189B:AD3B (talk) 18:31, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, okay, but who gave him this name in the Western press? I don't see any Iranian, Eastern, or Asian articles using this nickname. And in all the Western articles we can read, he is called 'the Butcher of Tehran' because... but called by whom? And when? This nickname seems like propaganda. Tiktak11 (talk) 09:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
it look likes, this nickname was gived first by the iranian opposition :
https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/publications/special-reports/iran-who-is-ebrahim-raisi/
that the earliest record of this nickname ... Tiktak11 (talk) 10:11, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He’s not dead yet.[edit]

The man isn’t officially dead yet. While his helicopter did crash, no bodies have yet to be found and no one has reached the crash site. It seems very presumptive to give him a death date without a body. 2601:408:8004:EAF0:A92F:DDB8:D33C:E0E1 (talk) 15:03, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, a voice of reason. Toadspike [Talk] 15:55, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Other sources say that he and other officials are fine. 180.150.112.106 (talk) 16:00, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What sources are they? Mehr News Agency nor the Iranian RCS have confirmed it. Abandonee (talk) 16:39, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They still haven't found the heli yet 151.34.90.247 (talk) 17:09, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What about this? It says hard landing. Meaning it wasn't a crash. AP news, "Hlicopter carrying Iran’s hard-line president apparently crashes in foggy, mountainous region" 180.150.112.106 (talk) 17:59, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, we should wait for an official confirmation of what happened. Although Kann and Keshet 12 reports for more than an hour now that the "Israeli assessment is that Raisi is dead", as of now, they should be treated as speculative sources.
-- Masterdesky (talk) 17:21, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah Israel has better satellites maybe.180.150.112.106 (talk) 17:55, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Numerous violations of WP:NOTNEWS[edit]

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a news agency. Any reporting on the helicopter incident is far too soon. Wait for facts to be established and reported in reliable sources, and then report it. I encourage everyone to remove the frequent not news violations on sight. Jeppiz (talk) 18:28, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. We should hold off on writing about this incident until there are more clear reliable sources available SKAG123 (talk) 18:55, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it's still unfolding. Also keep an eye on his wife's page, someone changed the description of it to "widow of the Iranian president" two hours ago. I changed it back to wife, as we don't know if he's dead or not. Camillz (talk) 18:59, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Death[edit]

Can I put "Possibly dead" in his info box? Camillz (talk) 18:56, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. See WP:CRYSTAL and WP:NOTNEWS. Jeppiz (talk) 19:05, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He's dead, Jim. ( https://x.com/anadoluagency/status/1792348729858768951 ) 2A02:2F01:6412:8000:A80C:A46C:F65F:3780 (talk) 00:58, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Associated Press and CNN is citing Iranian State TV that there are no signs of life at the crash site. CNN: https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/raisi-iran-president-helicopter-crash/h_84e1c9ad10338418fd5540d8f7723cc6 Coasterghost (talk) 03:07, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Helicopter accident[edit]

In may 19th 2024 his helicopter had an accident near varzaghan and rescue teams start to search to find him in this search a group of three also lost Amirilkhani (talk) 20:15, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We've discussed this. See above sections. Sadustu Tau (talk) 20:26, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024[edit]

2604:2D80:D780:9500:B1D5:FF5C:CC8B:83DC (talk) 00:11, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He might of died in a plane crash.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Note there is already a section about this with the quote It seems increasingly likely that Iran’s president is dead. Jamedeus (talk) 00:25, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Women's rights section doesn't read very neutral[edit]

Don't get me wrong, I think the information presented is valid, but the wording "In fact, Iran has one of the world's worst records for human rights, thus Raisi's statements must be taken with extreme caution." after his (apparent) feminist view points comes across as a gotcha moment. I feel like it could be reworded slightly, maybe replacing the 'in fact' with 'Despite these comments' or something along those lines.--Amelia-the-comic-geek (talk) 01:09, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Confirmed dead.[edit]

No official statement yet but several middle eastern media outlets are confirming the helicopter has been found as is decimated no one survived Theinfomer07 (talk) 02:39, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Theinfomer07 if there's no official statement I don't think it's confirmed. Arcade Wise (they/them) (talk) 02:42, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
New AP story says no signs of life. No body but that's as close as we've got. Aresef (talk) 03:04, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
state media has now confirmed that there are no survivors... شاه عباس (talk) 03:08, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
CNN are citing Iranian state news agency IRINN and semi-official news agency Mehr News. Coasterghost (talk) 03:08, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
CNN confirms. He's dead. 2603:8000:3E00:9FE2:FD49:8141:D952:5BDB (talk) 03:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
multiple sources now reporting no survivors, I'd say it's safe to update the article Hollywood43ar (talk) 03:11, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I stand corrected, they're currently only reporting "no signs of survivors" Hollywood43ar (talk) 03:27, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024 (2)[edit]

Died 19 May 2024 (Age 63) Kalam, Iran 170.55.65.198 (talk) 03:08, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024 (3)[edit]

Was not is. 75.51.27.24 (talk) 03:09, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024 (4)[edit]

He dead BricklordOG420 (talk) 03:18, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Confirmed dead[edit]

He's been confirmed dead, per CNN.

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/raisi-iran-president-helicopter-crash/index.html Ccole2006 (talk) 03:21, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also per CBS News here [1] which get their reporting from state media CtasACT (talk) 03:25, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't seen anything that confirms he's dead yet, only stating there were "no signs of survivors" Hollywood43ar (talk) 03:26, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes but lets be realistic he's not some type of immortal being who teleports out of the scene after surviving a helicopter crash, its de-facto confirmation. You are right on the verbatim point that it has not been stated WORD by WORD. CtasACT (talk) 03:30, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No reason to rush. See WP:CRYSTAL and WP:NOTNEWS. Instead we have people breaking the formatting of the page to rush to be the first person to edit it. 2600:4040:297C:8F00:CC1E:28D2:F5EB:DCA0 (talk) 03:32, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They've said "no signs of life". That's not a confirmation, but means presumed dead or missing. They haven't even found the body. Linkin Prankster (talk) 03:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How bout this? https://www.foxnews.com/video/6353254587112 , no survivor which mean he died Misquerable (talk) 03:55, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this was reported on by CNN and other orgs as well. There's enough confirmation by now to say that he is dead. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 03:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He died[edit]

On many news sources, they say that he has died from the crash Qwrest (talk) 03:24, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Currently tracking multiple news channels (live) who reportedly say that the death has been confirmed by Iranian TV. Werkwer (talk) 05:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Irresponsible conduct by editors here[edit]

News reports stating that there are "no signs of life" are not definitive official pronouncements of death. This is WP:SYNTH and WP:OR on a highly sensitive issue. We shouldn't be jumping the gun until there are clear headlines by established, reliable news reports: "Raisi is dead"/ JDiala (talk) 03:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Although Raisi's death is pretty much certain, it's not yet confirmed. The rescue teams are not yet at the crash site. Johndavies837 (talk) 03:36, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, until they find remains it's too early to update the article. Hollywood43ar (talk) 03:37, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Latest update from Iranian state TV says they're still "looking for signs of life". Johndavies837 (talk) 03:39, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If someone went for a walk through a jungle and disappeared for 16 hours and there were "no signs of life", you would have been right. The problem for you is, a helicopter crashed and the wreckage is charcoal and what the news says is "no signs of survivors". شاه عباس (talk) 03:39, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wreckage is sometimes destroyed in a post-crash fire. Just look at the 2024 Haneda Airport runway collision in which everyone on the Japan Airlines flight escaped before the plane was destroyed in a fire. Again, I don't think Raisi survived it's just not confirmed yet. Johndavies837 (talk) 03:47, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do we revert the edits because he *technically* has not been pronounced dead? Ccole2006 (talk) 03:43, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, I agree with the editor above that this is much different from the scenario of "walking through a jungle" — the helicopter, which is quite small, has been reported to have crashed into a mountain cliff and subsequently completely burned — I think it's safe to say that any reports of "no signs of life" are almost certainly true. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 03:46, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to play devil's advocate, it's possible they left alive and wandered away from the site and it burned down more completely after they left. Until they find remains it just seems too close to a crystal ball Hollywood43ar (talk) 03:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is "almost certainly true" enough to declare a president dead? Not even the cited source (Al Jazeera) is reporting his death on the front page. Their headline is: "Rescuers find helicopter of Iran president, foreign minister after crash". Johndavies837 (talk) 03:47, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Although a report just came in from CNN (1) that says that "no survivors" were found, and shows footage of the wreckage, which is quite different. By now, there's plenty of evidence to go along with changing the tense and going ahead with other edits. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 03:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
State media (written) confirmed his death. شاه عباس (talk) 03:58, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
CNN is reporting "believed to be dead":
"Iran's President Ebrahim Raisi is believed dead after "no survivors" were found at the crash site of the helicopter carrying him, according to Iranian state news channel IRINN and semi-official news agency Mehr News."
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/raisi-iran-president-helicopter-crash/index.html Pedisaur (talk) 04:08, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The CNN article in question literally refers to him in the past tense. Pedisaur (talk) 03:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024 (5)[edit]

NonHydranary (talk) 03:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove the "Present Day Iran" from his birth data, as it was still Iran in 1960, this language should only be applied to when an area fell under different borders or the state changed its name. This language is not present on any other pages of Iranian politicians.

 Already done Charliehdb (talk) 10:25, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 May 2024 (6)[edit]

put his date of death as may 19th 2024 184.189.220.196 (talk) 03:54, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"no signs of occupants being alive" ≠ dead[edit]

OK, he's likely dead, but the "is"-to-"was" thing felt a little hurried. We can wait, no one's going to die if we don't, except maybe Raisi himself. RodRabelo7 (talk) 04:21, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can't with the joke 💀 Misquerable (talk) 04:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just noticed now there's already a topic about the matter. Sorry for duplicating it. RodRabelo7 (talk) 04:24, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hurriedly changing "is" to "was" on bios is one of Wikipedia's greatest memes. That was a little premature - given the driving rain & terrain that the rescuers had to battle thru, it's no wonder we didn't have immediate clarity. 2A00:23C4:3E44:2C01:6586:5AAE:9AAC:71F2 (talk) 06:56, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Raisi and violation of human rights in Iran[edit]

He has played a huge role in the violation of human rights in Iran and throughout the Middle East. This issue should be mentioned better and with more information in the article. His role in the killing of Iranian women and children is not mentioned too. FreeZoneF (talk) 08:51, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Came here to say this. Just read that he was responsible for the executions of 5000 political prisoners in 1988 alone, which if I’m reading correctly, was a violation of international law. Viriditas (talk) 11:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You have to provide at least one source that mentions his violation of human rights and, if the comment above is true, the claimed execution of political prisoners. Saying just "add more about x because it should be in the article" without providing sources is not valid. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 13:07, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@FreeZoneF.Yep, you just gotta show a reliable source of info for this to be a good edit request, then it can be added in. Garef 14:40, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’m also surprised we don’t have a single photo of the thousands of public lynchings by cranes that are available. It’s like someone is trying to sanitize Wikipedia. The Iranian regime executed hundreds to thousands just under his presidency alone, something like 40% or more were executed for nonviolent crimes alone. Viriditas (talk) 18:23, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You know the difference between 'lynching' and 'hanging'? No? Ahh, ok.
2001:16B8:C711:5800:7096:D117:F1F9:4E5A (talk) 00:29, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Really? "The Iranian government summarily, extrajudicially, and secretly executed thousands of political prisoners held in Iranian jails in the summer of 1988. According to Human Rights Watch the majority of prisoners had had unfair trials by the revolutionary courts, and in any case had not been sentenced to death." Hope you enjoyed the education. Viriditas (talk) 03:20, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Place of death[edit]

Some sources (like these ones https://www.maisoncarne.es/2024/qu-cks/2081947GMsDA2241PDbNS/ ; https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/raisi-iran-president-helicopter-crash/index.html) say that the helicopter carrying Ebrahim Raisi crashed near the village of Tavil, not near Julfa as we report. 2A02:B021:F06:8DEE:BBC:AA83:B38:2B11 (talk) 14:56, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Given that Tavil and Jolfa are only around 60 miles apart, it's likely that the crash occurred somewhere between the two. Dialmayo 15:02, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The sources disagree on this matter, but as you say the helicopter crash probably occurred between Tavil and Julfa. 2A02:B021:F06:8DEE:BBC:AA83:B38:2B11 (talk) 15:05, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
2024 Varzaqan helicopter crash has the exact coordinates of the crash. Sadustu Tau (talk) 18:43, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nickname inclusion violates the impartiality principle[edit]

The inclusion of the nickname "The Butcher of Tehran" in the infobox goes against Wikipedia's stance of political neutrality and impartiality, as it is mostly used by his detractors and is not a universally accepted nickname Raisi. It should be removed. 2A04:EE41:0:62C8:4F6:9D4B:AD2D:9A5F (talk) 04:29, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How is it not universally accepted? Am I a detractor if I am opposed to extrajudicial killings that lack due process, fair trials, and an independent judiciary? Sorry, some of us want to live in 2024, not 1024. Viriditas (talk) 05:41, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Raisi was elected, it means he he had supporters. "extrajudicial" is another ideologically charged word: the iranian judiciary is indeed independent, it just isn't secular 2A04:EE41:0:62C8:4F6:9D4B:AD2D:9A5F (talk) 06:14, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The state butchered children of high school age and young adults of college age because they were ideologically left of center, did not embrace forced religion, and supported feminism. If that’s not butchery I don’t know what is. "I am beginning to suspect that whoever is incapable of recognizing this may be incapable of morality." Viriditas (talk) 07:57, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We go by what WP:RS say. In addition to the RS in the article already, in their obituaries, a summation of how RS view the individual's legacy, many RS in international media ([1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], include the Butcher of Tehran moniker. Not including so would not be properly representing RS, which is what Wikipedia is based on . This doesn't take away from Raisi's popularity or suggest that he wasn't popular or elected (it could even be a factor of his popularity). Longhornsg (talk) 15:42, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 May 2024[edit]

Add this according to your preference and modification into his "Death" section

Raisi had died in a helicopter crash on 19 May, 2024 around 10:00 GMT. He was flying in an Bell 212 when about 30 minutes into the flight, officials lost contact with the aircraft. At about 1:30 GMT, rescuers spotted the wreckage from a distance from about 2 kilometers (1.2 miles) from the city of Varzaqan and then took about an hour to reach it. At the crash site, there were no signs of life, including the president's. Ayatollah Mohammad Ali Al-e Hashem, Ali Khamenei's representative in East Azerbaijan was actually alive for about an hour after the crash in which he made contact with the president's head of office before he died at about 11:00 GMT. There is no current known cause for the crash, except for maneuvering difficulties in heavy fog. Currently, there is no known successor to the president, but Mohammad Mokhber has been declared the current acting president of Iran. Although, Mokhber can only be the acting president for a maximum time period of 3 months before a new permanent replacement has to be nominated and approved by the Iranian Parliament.

Sources: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4nnd23d505o , https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/ebrahim-raisi-iran-president-helicopter-crash-live-updates-wreckage-of-iran-presidents-crashed-helicopter-found-5702084 Dynamicontributer (talk) 08:54, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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