Talk:Hidarnes II

This is the talk page of a redirect that targets the page:
• Hydarnes (disambiguation)
Because this page is not frequently watched, present and future discussions, edit requests and requested moves should take place at:
• Talk:Hydarnes (disambiguation)

Biography: Royalty and Nobility

	Biography portal This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This redirect is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility.

History

This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles

Armenia

Hidarnes II is within the scope of WikiProject Armenia, an attempt to improve and better organize information in articles related or pertaining to Armenia and Armenians. If you would like to contribute or collaborate, you could edit the redirect attached to this page or visit the project page for further information.ArmeniaWikipedia:WikiProject ArmeniaTemplate:WikiProject ArmeniaArmenian articles

Merger proposal[edit]

I propose to merge Hidarnes II into Hydarnes II. Reason : Same person. ManuRoquette (talk) 16:46, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Hydarnes (disambiguation)[edit]

@The Banner: I suggest this article gets redirected to Hydarnes (disambiguation), as this 'Hidarnes II' figure is ahistorical. First off there was no 'king' of Armenia in the 5th-century BC, as the area was a satrapy (i.e. province) of the Achaemenid Empire, as can be read in ARMENIA and IRAN i. Armina, Achaemenid province, From Cyrus to Alexander: A History of the Persian Empire, A Companion to the Achaemenid Persian Empire, and so on. Moreover, it seems that this Hydarnes is based on Hydarnes the Younger, who was not a monarch nor Orontid, and does not even seem to have governed Armenia per HYDARNES and From Cyrus to Alexander: A History of the Persian Empire. Not to mention this Hydarnes is not given a regnal number in the majority of WP:RS, if any. What are your thoughts? --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:57, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Orontid dynasty contradicts your claim. The Banner talk 19:09, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The Banner: How so? And which part? --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:26, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Orontids ruled first as client kings or satraps of the Achaemenid Empire. Note the word "king". The Banner talk 10:06, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The Banner: So, you took it from an unsourced line in a Wikipedia article. Sorry but that is not how it works, and it doesn't even adress my other points, including the bit about Hydarnes and the fact Armenia was a province/satrapy. I've linked several reliable sources to prove my points, with all respect I expect you to do the same. Also, note that the Orontes' are called satraps here, not 'kings' [1]. The Orontids were first kings after the collapse of the Achaemenids. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:35, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The Banner: Moreover, in the list of Orontids of Armenia (who are also called satraps) by Cyril Toumanoff in Studies in Christian Caucasian history page 279-280, no 'Hidarnes II' is included. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:20, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The Banner: A few days have passed, are you going to reply? --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:16, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ow, you want it in writing that I still do not agree with you? The Banner talk 20:41, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The Banner: You think responding in such a recalcitrant way is helping your case? I have presented sound arguments and reliable sources, thereby abiding to Wikipedia's guidelines, whereas you have not. If you keep WP:STONEWALLING, this will be taken to ANI. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:58, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, you are already out of arguments that you have to start threatening? The Banner talk 22:37, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And maybe you can get more people into this discussion. The Banner talk 22:51, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, you are already out of arguments that you have to start threatening?

I'm not sure what you're trying to gain by talking to a fellow user like that. I have been respectful towards you from the get-go, especially since I am well aware you're quite the experienced editor. It seems clear that the respect don't go both ways.

And maybe you can get more people into this discussion.

Reverting a change, or opposing a change, based solely on the argument that "more discussion is needed", "discussion is in progress", or something like that, without demonstrating any serious inclination to engage in substantive discussion about the change..

Since it is evident that you're not interested in participating in this discussion properly, I am reinstating my revert. Bests.

--HistoryofIran (talk) 23:29, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So, I see that you have decided to just bluntly ignore my objections. That is what I, as stated before, call POV-pushing. The Banner talk 10:24, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've already stated my reasons for doing so (WP:STONEWALLING amongst other things), so kindly refrain from casting WP:ASPERSIONS. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:03, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]