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Talk:Hope (1764 ship)

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More than one ship?[edit]

I'm not sure, but as far as I can tell this page is not about a single vessel but at least two that shared the name Hope. The Hope that sailed under Joseph Ingraham in the early 1790s was probably not the slave ship Hope described on most of the rest of the page. It is a bit difficult to determine because of the nine references, five are about Ingraham's brig Hope, two are dead links, one is very confusing and does not obviously lead to any info about a vessel named Hope (the first reference to www.kouroo.info -- I poked around and could not find any info, but was confused by the website's design), and one citing an out of print book unavailable online. But I did find another source about the slaving ship Hope, Sons of Providence: The Brown Brothers, the Slave Trade, and the American Revolution. There is info about the Hope on pages 267, 269, and 305. There isn't enough info to know for sure whether this Hope was the same as Ingraham's Hope, but it seems unlikely to me. First of all the slaving vessel was owned by Rhode Island interests and operated out of Newport and/or Providence, while Ingraham's vessel was owned by Thomas Handasyd Perkins of Boston, and operated out of Boston. Second, the slaving vessel made at least two slave trading voyages starting in 1787, and then, if I am reading right, "returned to Africa four times in the next four years". This seems like it conflicts with Ingraham's Pacific ventures in the early 1790s. Further, the slave ship was fitted out again for the slave trade in 1795, where it was "on the Providence waterfront, with the distinctive hallmarks of the African trade". Ingraham's Hope was a fur trading brig. It left Boston for the Pacific in 1790. In 1792 it left the Pacific Northwest for China and was in Macau in 1793. From there it returned to Boston via the Cape of Good Hope. It couldn't have reached New England again until 1794 or 1795. And given it's use in the Maritime Fur Trade and Old China Trade it seems quite unlikely to me that any slave trading gear (chains, handcuffs, etc) would have survived. It would have been pointless and wasteful to haul such gear around the world for no purpose.

Anyway, I wonder if anyone can provide more info about the slaving vessel, especially given the relative lack of working references here. Info about Ingraham's brig is relatively easy to come by--it was about 70 tons, for example. From what I can tell the slave ship was significantly larger. I suspect this page has acquired info about at least two vessels named Hope from the late 18th century. But there were many many vessels with that name in those days, in New England alone. This page probably ought to be split into at least two, pending more and better sources to clarify things. Pfly (talk) 04:34, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I was wondering about that as well when I wrote the article. Hopefully in time more sources will become available online and make it easier to discern if there were two ships. Aboutmovies (talk) 08:21, 18 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
One cannot take a highly popular name for ships and then treat all that bear that name as the same vessel. The Mumford Hope was of 80 tons, and the Peleg Hope, which made four voyages, was of 75 tons, but there was another Hope, Peleg, captain, that was of 208 tons. I can readily identify at least another dozen slave ships with the name Hope. And I haven't even started on the non-slave trading Hopes. Trying to turn this article into something intelligible is going to be a major effort, one I am not inclined now to undertake.Acad Ronin (talk) 00:01, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There are a multitude of slave ships named Hope (check slavevoyages.org), and my research has focused on those sailing from Rhode Island in the 1780s & 90s. Nat Briggs, Caleb Gardner (and other associates) appear to have owned two brigs: a 40-ton vessel used in the triangle trade in 1787, 1788, and 1789. They switched to a 75-ton vessel, if not in 1792, then definitely in 1793. The vessel that John Brown outfitted is completely different--it was a 208-ton ship. The vessel from the 1760s, captained by Robert Mumford, appears to be an 80-ton sloop. I am still researching; it appears John Brown's Hope was used for other missions, but I'm not yet sure if it's the same ship that Ingraham was aboard. Elim2369 (talk) 03:36, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I split out the fur trade stuff from this page and made a new page for that ship, at Hope (1789 brigantine). Definitely two different vessels. Pfly (talk) 03:45, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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