Talk:List of tallest statues/Archive 1

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Valle de los Caidos

The Valle de los Caídos statue, with 150 m height is not in the list.

Not is an statue; is a cross.
Takashi Kurita ~ Hablame compañero 13:28, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. Crosses are not statues, by any reasonable definition. Someone added in the Valle de los Caídos in spite of this; I'll remove it. Rockypedia (talk) 12:43, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Country names

As the country name merely describes the statue's location, I think we can omit the flag. -- User:Docu

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Extant or historical?

Is this list limited to still-standing statues, or does it include documented historical statues that no longer survive? cmadler (talk) 12:40, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Never mind, that's what I get for not looking farther down the page. cmadler (talk) 17:59, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

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Photo replaced -- OverQuantum (talk) 23:05, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

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Coordinate error

{{geodata-check}}

The following coordinate fixes are needed for

Actual location for "Iron Man" statue in Chisholm, MN, USA is:

47° 28′ 53.04″ N, 92° 53′ 46.36″ W

—24.159.204.242 (talk) 17:01, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

 Done, and I've also emended the coordinates in the article Iron Man (statue). Thanks for pointing out the error. Deor (talk) 20:50, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

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Abstract art

File:Monumentul Tineretului.jpg
Monumentul Tineretului

The Tineretului statue is described by its designer as an abstract representation of a fallen angle. Does this qualify for the list's criteria of representing one or more people or animals (real or mythical), in their entirety or partially? To me, this monument does not look like a human form, but it is intended to represent one. Is that good enough, or does the work need to be an obvious representation. The monument is currently included in the list, but I'm not 100% sure it meets criteria. Feedback would be appreciated. Hadron137 (talk) 17:48, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

I can see the dilemma but I err on the side of simplicity. Keep the article's criteria as statues that are representational of the human form or animals rather than abstract. Happy to see arguments to the contrary. Robynthehode (talk) 15:33, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

References

Stalin's former statue in Prague (15.5 m high)

Stalin Monument (Prague) should be included as well among destroyed statues. Ceplm (talk) 20:10, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

No not tall enough for inclusion. Minimum height (without any plinth or other building support) is 30m as per criteria stated at top of list. Robynthehode (talk) 21:49, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Hong Kong

I recently attempted to edit this page to have the Guanyin statue link to Hong Kong, rather than to the PRC page. I included a notification that the PRC grouping of statues include those from Hong Kong. Both were reverted because Hong Kong is not a country. That is true, but Hong Kong is generally listed separately from the PRC in international lists. If someone could explain why both of my edits are problematic, I would appreciate it. --PlasmaTwa2 19:24, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

The country column should only show the country (based on the reliable source - the UN). Hong Kong can be listed separately for some lists (a list of world currencies) but not ones which are not relevant. Geographical location is not relevant in this context. Of course mention that the statue is located in the region of Hong Kong is not a problem if it is placed in the relevant column Robynthehode (talk) 19:59, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
I have a problem with the logic behind your source, because the UN does not recognize Taiwan as its own country and yet it is included under the incorrect name no less (I should stress that I believe Taiwan should be listed as Taiwan, but that inherently undermines your reasoning). From a quick look, I have not found any real guideline on whether or not to list it as Hong Kong or China in lists such as this. For instance, list of tallest buildings lists it as China, but List of tallest buildings in Asia lists it as Hong Kong. List of cities with the most high-rise buildings does as well. I also note that you were previously involved with a similar dispute on the list of cities with the most skyscrapers page, and I am curious if the same logic there applies to here given Hong Kong's independence in regard to civil laws. Perhaps the same compromise should be used here: list it as Hong Kong, China with the HK flag, and include a note in the list of countries at the top that the Chinese tally includes Hong Kong. --PlasmaTwa2 20:23, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Taiwan is a special case due to the position of China on Taiwan. No one disputes that Hong Kong is a special admin region of China. So China is the country. The other lists re buildings has been an ongoing situation where a relative consensus was reached but other editors who have not engaged in discussion keep changing the 'country' to Hong Kong or even changing the column heading to 'Region' to fit their agenda. It is simple to place Hong Kong as the location in the 'Location' column. And as a clarification it may be useful to put a note saying the list contains statues from Hong Kong but I strongly disagree having the flag of Hong Kong in the country column or elsewhere. Robynthehode (talk) 20:33, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
I wouldn't say that people keep changing it to Hong Kong to fit an agenda. Rather it is a recognition that Hong Kong has independence and self-representation in several relevant areas, including in those related to architectural standards, and they are often listed as a distinct entity in many lists like this despite their lack of sovereignty. I have not seen a relative consensus in these other building lists since many differ from one another. Perhaps we need other people to give their sides of this issue, because I believe that the Hong Kong flag should be displayed, or at the least list it as Hong Kong, China as per the skyscraper page. --PlasmaTwa2 22:37, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Birth of the New World?PR

They keep removing it because they say it's a sculpture or it's a monument. Actually it is a statue, because statues are monuments. And you can check the definition of monument and it says "Examples of monuments include statues,". CarlosPR5 (talk) 06:43, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Statues are a type of sculpture. They can be part of larger monuments. The monument you are talking about here is not mostly comprised of a statue- that is only a small part. The reason it is not included is that the statue part isn't nearly large enough to make the list (it isn't over 30 metres tall). This is being consistently applied- pedestals are not included in statue heights either. SMcM (talk) 11:04, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

faulty table formatting

There is a cleanup tag with the reason "faulty table formatting". What is faulty about the table? RJFJR (talk) 19:07, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

I was wondering the same thing. It seems fine to me. Hadron137 (talk) 23:51, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
I am removing the tag. It was added by an IP address on 2019-08-17T16:00:56, the only edit the user ever made. They didn't explain it. It's been questioned since. I can't see anything wrong, either. The tag is just clutter at this point. Normal Op (talk) 16:44, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

tallest sculptures

I see that more than one sculpture has been removed from this list article because it doesn't meet the definition of "statue" that we are using right now. Is there some other article that lists "tallest sculptures" that would be more appropriate for those sculptures? --DavidCary (talk) 03:26, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

You can try looking in the two categories "Lists of tallest structures" and "Colossal statues". I notice that someone added Peter the Great Statue with this edit [1], and it probably doesn't qualify to be in THIS list because the statue of the man is probably smaller than 30 meters. I tried to google and find any measurements, but the only measure seems to be the entire statue including the base and the ships. Normal Op (talk) 05:28, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Statue criteria

Hi there - which few editors decided to make their own standards for this article? The Birth of the New World statue is considered by many reliable sources to be the tallest statue in the Americas, and is thus at the top of List of tallest statues in the United States. Why should this article be different? Whose standards are you following? The criteria at the top of the article are not cited to any particular organization. I understand that a brick pedestal, etc. would not count, as it is usually not a sculpted piece, part of the artwork, but in this case, the entire statue/sculpture spans more than just the figure. For other even more abstract statues, this criteria of where the figure starts and the remaining portion ends could be impossible to follow. ɱ (talk) 14:18, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for taking your points to the talk page. As in many list articles criteria for inclusion are reached by consensus of editors working on that article. Wikipedia is partly about consensus. Once a consensus is reached about inclusion criteria then reliable sources are required for inclusion in that article. Secondly whether an entry in a list is in one list article doesn't mean it has to be in another due to the fact that criteria may have been reached that are different but in addition Wikipedia articles cannot be sources for other Wikipedia articles. See WP:UGC. To get to the specific structure in question - Birth of the New World - it is a monument or possibly sculpture. These are described and defined differently to statues. See Statue and Monument, Sculpture. Of course these categories are not mutually exclusive. It has been agreed by many editors that BOTNW does not belong in the List of tallest statues because the statue part of that monument does not fulfil the criteria for inclusion. You are welcome to discuss further providing reliable sources or you can create an list article about monuments if you want. Many statues fall outside the criteria including notable ones because the height criterion is not fulfilled. Regarding your point about where a statue begins and ends it is reasonably clear. Statues can be people or animals. Abstract statues do not fulfil this. Included is any part of the body/head of the person/animal but excludes anything else such as plinths, thrones, buildings, other structures types. If you want to challenge this consensus please do so - you have every right to do so but you will need to support your arguments with sources and reach a new consensus before changing anything in either article. Thanks. Robynthehode (talk) 17:32, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
A long wall of text, but where is the evidence? You may agree with a few others in reverts or short discussions, but this is the entire talk page, no? Where is the collaborative agreement of a dozen+ editors on the exact criteria, and that BOTNW fails that? Where is the agreement that we can ignore multiple consistently reliable sources and create our own arbitrary standards of inclusion? Ridiculous. ɱ (talk) 14:12, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Ɱ The criteria are based on the other Wikipedia articles as noted above (so please read them). The criteria are also based on previous discussions on this talk page. It is not incumbent on me to provide links to these discussions but for you to provide evidence for new consensus or to research the archives and counter my claim that there isn't a consensus. Fundamentally BOTNW is a monument with the statue that is part of it not tall enough to fulfil the currently stated height requirement (you could of course try to build a consensus to get that part changed). It should therefore be excluded from the list. And nice to see your dismissive remark about the wall of text - I was merely trying to answer your query point by point. I also included more general points because I don't know how experienced an editor you are so was trying to be helpful. So it you want to get BOTNW included in the article you will have to build a consensus. If you don't want to discuss it with me then check WP:3O or WP:RFC. Thanks Robynthehode (talk) 15:44, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
You don't have any evidence at all to back up your claims. The so-called 'consensus' I guess is merely the definitions applied to the articles, which are general applicable terms, but don't exactly translate to the best way to manage this list. As well, this is original research or synthesis. If the statue has significant mentions in reliable sources as the tallest statue in the Americas, that's worthy of inclusion here, regardless of you and your buddies' unlisted, theoretical criteria. I don't need to prove anything to you. Without any clear evidence anywhere of a formal list of criteria based upon a reliable source's standards for inclusion, this is all a pet project wp:owned by a few nitpicky editors, and clear wp:synth. ɱ (talk) 16:03, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Ɱ You are entitled to your view but you will still need a consensus to change this. Editors are perfectly entitled to come to consensus and define criteria for a list article otherwise list articles either become meaningless as they include anything or unmanageable because they include everything. That is not WP:OR or WP:SYNTH. Your discussion tone is not conducive to working this out between us so as I have already suggested take it to WP:3O or WP:RFC. I am happy to accept a new consensus (if there is one) but it must be developed according to Wikipedia policy. Thanks. Robynthehode (talk) 17:05, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Peter the Great 'statue'

Ɱ The proper place for a civil discussion about these issues is the talk page. You could have come here on my edit and pinged me. My mistake re edit warring but the content of your edit summary lead me to believe you had reverted my edit. Swearing in edit summaries is contrary to WP:CIVIL. I am not claiming ownership of this article as other editors have agreed with not including statues such as Peter the Great and Birth of the New World. You need to gain consensus if you want the criteria for this list article to be changed. I would be happy to work with you to create a new list article which is a list of tallest monuments. This would help with this article as other editors have tried to include Peter the Great and Birth of the New World here. Let me know if you are interested in that project. Thanks Robynthehode (talk) 13:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

I have been avoiding the talk page because I already tried here, but nobody has seemed to get the point. Thanks for hearing me out - I could help clean up or add to a list of tallest monuments article, but my expertise really is elsewhere. ɱ (talk) 13:58, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Ɱ Thanks for your response. I understand you have tried to gain consensus here previously. But engaging with editors on a talk page is no guarantee that your point of view will become the consensus. Just a point that may not have been made previously which may help to convince you why Peter the Great and Birth of the New World shouldn't be included here is this: Go to Philadelphia City Hall and if you see the photo and read the relevant part of the article you will see that there is a statue of William Penn on top of this very tall building. The statue isn't that tall (11 metres) but the building is - 167 metres (including the statue). Does this statue then count as one of the tallest statues in the world? This is why the criteria for this list article is the height of the statue itself not the height of any structure it is part of (or on top of). The statues listed in this article do mention plinths and buildings they may stand on but these are listed separately so that the statue height can be seen and compared correctly with other statues. A list of tallest monuments would get round this by listing the total height of the monument no matter how tall any statue is that is part of the monument. If I have time I will create this new article as soon as I can and it would be great if you can contribute to it if you agree with the distinction I have just made between statues and monuments. Thanks Robynthehode (talk) 14:29, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Alright, I understand. Ping me as you start it and I'll see how I can help. I agree it can help keep this list intact with only featuring statue height. ɱ (talk) 15:29, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Standing Amitābha Buddha of Fo Guang Shan (currently #72)

I created the entry and provided the photo for this statue. The height given for it, if I recall correctly, was taken from a placard at the base of the statue (40 m, 130 ft). I'm not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure the given height didn't specify if it was height of the statue alone, or the height of the statue and its base. If I had to guess, the 40m/130ft given height probably included the base. As such, if the statue itself is 30 m tall, it remains on the list (although further down). Otherwise, it's possible it doesn't meet the 30 m criteria for inclusion at all. Hopefully someone can verify this.

Giant

Time to add The Giant (statue)? ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:39, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

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Please Fix Table

Can someone please fix the table as someone has messed it up while editing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.80.152 (talk) 01:53, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Table still broken Emmalum (talk) 00:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

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