Talk:Mart Sander

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This article was nominated for deletion on 20 March 2018. The result of the discussion was keep.

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References and dates needed[edit]

This article is completely unreferenced except by the IMDB cite and cites to the subject's own website. It also appears that much of the article was written by the subject or a friend, and so WP:VANITY should be reviewed carefully by the editors. Please add more references to reliable sources (WP:RS) or information will need to be deleted. -- Ssilvers 22:32, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion of fact tag[edit]

An editor has deleted a fact tag, and it appears there is a conflict of interest: If you have a close connection to some of the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred from the tone of the edit and the proximity of the editor to the subject, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:

editing articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors;
linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam);
and you must always:
avoid breaching relevant policies and guidelines, especially neutral point of view, verifiability, and autobiography.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have conflict of interest, please see Wikipedia:Business' FAQ. For more details about what constitutes a conflict of interest, please see Wikipedia:Conflict of Interest. Thank you. --Ssilvers 22:34, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A message from Sanders' mom[edit]

Hello evrybody who are suspicious! I`m here Mart Sander`s mother and I may confirm You, there is all true and I was very offended and hurt reading these suspects. Yes , no doubt, he is very highly talented man and there are too much envious people on his way. Do You think it is easy to be under Yours suspicions? Please check :

               1) Divine Art Ltd. , who has released his music.
                 www.divine-art.com
                 info@divine-art.com
               2)Gilbert & Sullivan Festival in Buxton, UK,
                 where he has been perfoming this year even third time
                 website: gs-festival.co.uk
                 email:  gsfestival@gs-festival.co.uk
               3) check from BBC Radio 3 - Brian Kay`s Light Programme
                 when he presente on 07.10.2004 Estonian group 
                 Bel -Etage performing Edwardian musicals. And so he 
                 playd Mart Sander some more times.
                 www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/bklp
                4) Please, visit our homepage
                  www.bel-etage.ee
                  and You will be sure, nobody is cheating You.
                5) He has just written a fantastic book in english
                   "LUX GRAVIS", The Tale Of the Different Truth.
                   The Question To All Answers.
                   Is it easy to find a publisher? May-be You are 
                   the Publisher?
                 6) He really is painting too!!
  Yours truly, Lembi Sander82.131.5.43 10:16, 6 September 2007 (UTC)  info@bel-etage.ee[reply]

Dear Mrs. Sander, Please see WP:CITE and WP:RS. Sanders' own websites are not reliable sources for an article about Sander. Best regards, -- Ssilvers 17:41, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just couldn't help myself with this: Is the BBC really Sanders' own website? I mean the one that is listed above and speaks of The Swing Swindlers directed by Mart Sander? And how about the Mart Sander at IMDb? There are at least 2 books coming up at google written by the guy Z, the Terminal Letter ISBN 9949108659 and Mercator ISBN 9985600274. However, (I know it's a word to avoid) the article is written like a recommendation letter instead of anything from an encyclopedia. It would need some heavy clean up. --Termer 00:55, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Created this page.[edit]

I would like to state that I am the creator of this article and have absolutely no connection to, or have ever met Mr. Sander. Any fault with shoddy citations and lack of sources lies solely with me. I did, in fact, utilise Mart Sander's home page to gather information on him, but I resent the insinuation that I am a "minion" of Mr. Sander (or, Mart Sander himself) who created this page out of vanity. One only needs to check my IP to confirm that I am in Pennsylvania and not Estonia (I am, however, Estonian). Someone who knows Mr. Sander may have worked on this article after its creation, but it certainly wasn't the creator. ExRat 23:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No one "insinuated" that you are Sander. User:Zsanderz edited the article. I belive that Zsanderz is Sander or someone connected with him. That is the editor who has caused the imposition of the conflict of interest tag. Now, would you please add references to the sources that you used in finding information for this article? -- Ssilvers 16:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Citations[edit]

I tried to verify some of the claims this article makes for Mr Sander myself using the internet, but was unable to find any references there. Please add verifiable references for these claims as requested. Jack1956 14:44, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If the unverified claims are not substantiated with citations and/or references then I will remove them. Jack1956 (talk) 22:53, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's appropriate. The {{fact}} tags have been there a while, with no reliable sources forthcoming. Marc Shepherd (talk) 23:01, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:09, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Jack. I put back in a few of the facts with fact tags, hoping that someone will be able to come up with sources. I am pretty sure that he recorded the Monckton album, for example. If the references don't show up within, say, a month, I guess we'll have to take it out. -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:56, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Swing Swindlers[edit]

Can anyone find any refs for this article? Is it notable per WP:MUS? Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:00, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, they call Mart Sander, an internationally well-known musician and film personality. He is a champion of British music, a film director and composer, and has also published two novels. at http://www.divine-art.com. Also there is a ref for Swing Swindlers that Sander is the conductor of. --Termer (talk) 18:26, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but that is the record company's publicity site. I have not doubt that The Swing Swindlers exists, but is it notable? Notable music ensembles usually have lots of independent reviews, etc. See WP:MUS and WP:RS. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:10, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unreferenced changes[edit]

Dear anonymous user: Do not add unreferenced information to this article. Citing Sander's website for all of these assertions is not acceptable on Wikipedia. Find reliable, verifiable sources. See WP:V and WP:RS. Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:45, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Images[edit]

I am concerned about the copyright status of the three images in the article. The uploader claims to own the copyright, but at least one of them appears on Mr Sander's website, implying that he owns the rights. If a full free use rationale is not provided then I will nominate them for speedy deletion as copyright violations. Jack1956 (talk) 16:30, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Basically, if Sander owns all three photographs, he needs to place them in the public domain, or give them a license no worse than the GNU public license. Marc Shepherd (talk) 17:20, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please notify the uploader of your plans and see if there is a response. Please see also the Swing Swindlers article: I think that the images there should be treated the same, and that the uploader needs to get a notice. Would you please also notify the anonymous user who tried to rewrite the article today? I suspect that they are the same person. -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:58, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that User:Zsanderz is Mart Sander. User:Zsanderz is the individual who uploaded the photographs. I obviously have no way of confirming this. If User:Zsanderz is Mart Sander, then it is quite likely that he does own the copyright to the photographs and it would not be in conflict with one appearing on his page and then being uploaded (by him) here. That is, of course, provided User:Zsanderz is Mart Sander. The photograph appearing at Postimees is simply attributed to erakogu, which means "private collection" in Estonian. Most likely Sander's. If Sander is the uploader and copyright holder, then he needs to state that he is User:Zsanderz in the liscensing. With that, I am uninterested in further trailing Mr. Sander around Wikipedia playing "gotcha". I am at fault when I initially created the article because of my lack of citations and reliance on Sander's website for the majority of information. That has hopefully been remedied for the bulk of the article. Cheers, hea õnn ja pihta hakkama. ExRat (talk) 06:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't about 'trailing Mr Sanders around Wikipedia' or anyone else for that matter. It is about properly licensing images. If Mr Sander uploaded these images, and he owns the copyright to them, then he needs to licence them. Jack1956 22:29, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Images are now listed for deletion[edit]

Image:Zanderz-by-Jarek-glamour.jpg has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion.

Image:Queen's-Visit-small.jpg has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion.

Image:Sanderi-näitus,-kevad-2006.jpg has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion.

Please respond there if you can help rescue them by correcting the licensing information. Jack, I don't think we should delete the Queen Elizabeth image, because I think it is fair use, since it provides visual evidence of statements made in this article. I could add a fair use summary if we can't show public domain. What do you think? -- Ssilvers 01:39, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

User: Zanderz posted this at the image discussion:

Dear everyone, I had no idea every single upload is being discussed to the extremes! So let me present myself: my name is Mart Sander, and I do hold copyright to each of the pictures that I have uploaded. These were made by the photographers who work for me, they have been paid for their work and resultingly I own the copyright. Uploading the pictures I do release them into public domain. If there are any problems, my e-mail is mart@martsander.com. Cheers and merry Christmas, Mart.

-- Ssilvers (talk) 22:34, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Mart,

I inquired about your images and was told that to prove that you are the copyright holder, you need to email a message for each image to Wikimedia's PR department at permissions-en@wikimedia.org. Tell them that you wish to release each image to the public domain. Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:01, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article seems has made a lot of progress, it doesn't read like a recommendation letter any more, is well referenced if not over refd and strictly factual. Therefore, if it was up to me, I'd remove the tag! Thanks!--Termer (talk) 05:53, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tagging.[edit]

I have removed the following tages:

As the original creator of the page, I have written the bulk of this article, that was then heavily sourced and referenced by myself and several other editors. I do not know Mart Sander in any way, shape or form. Although the article has seemingly been edited by Mr. Sander, I do not see any evidence of WP:peacock whatsoever. The article does read like an encyclopedia entry and is devoid of any flattery that I can see. ExRat (talk) 23:00, 2 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of the sources are self-published (his own home page, Fancast, IMDB, ttu.ee, tiscali.co.uk). "Order of St. Stanislaus" is rather dubious, as the original order was disbanded in 1917 and I cannot find a single source about Mart Sander being a knight of such order.

Many sources seem to be down or gone for good:

That is nearly half of all the sources, often used as a source for key facts in the article. Considering this is a BLP, either new (and better) sources need to be found or at least the URL's fixed, where possible.

Also, some new information could be added:

--Sander Säde 11:32, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, Sander Säde. Would you please go ahead to update the article? -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:53, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Order of St Stanislaus[edit]

Which order is it, actually? It doesn't seem to be the one in the article Order of Saint Stanislaus. It rather looks like one of those mentioned in International Order of Saint Stanislaus: There are three or four Orders of Saint Stanislaus today. These different Orders and Grandmasters do not recognize each other as legitimate successors or revivals of the Order of Saint-Stanislaus and none of them is recognized by the Polish government. If it is deemed important enough to mention, it should be also important enough to be clarified. --Oop (talk) 09:12, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It seems like BS to me - kind of like Grand Poobah. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:00, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I can find no information about this order. It seems irrelevant, as there seems to be next to nothing about it on the internet. ExRat (talk) 21:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Removed Proposed Deletion tag.[edit]

I have removed the proposed deletion tag as it isn't warranted whatsoever. The subject meets notability in many respects: has been in films, on television, has recorded music, etc. He was the host of several Estonian television programmes and is well-known to the Estonian public. ExRat (talk) 15:25, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I concur. Prince of Thieves (talk) 15:35, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Copyvio[edit]

The opening sentences of this article are a direct WP:COPYVIO of this page from the Kennedy Centre website, and should therefore be rewritten.--Smerus (talk) 17:29, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]