Talk:Chris Brown/Archive 4

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Edit!

Uhm just wanted to let you know that Exclusive has been certefied 2x Platinum. Here are some links to give you more info love :)

http://www.riaa.com/print.php?id=7F920A25-90EF-91C3-4A27-F64E7A443904 http://www.riaa.com/newsitem.php?content_selector=riaa-news-gold-and-platinum&news_month_filter=5&news_year_filter=2011&id=7F920A25-90EF-91C3-4A27-F64E7A443904

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShawtyHellaDumb (talk • contribs) 18:45, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 74.60.17.23, 28 June 2011

I am a record producer/disc jockey with a local record company named "Hitmission Records". We are the record company that is referenced in the wikipedia article that "discovered Chris Brown at a gas station" and forwarded him to then A&R of Def Jam Records, Tina Davis, who is his current manager. I am writing this update because we were not properly credited for our part in getting Chris signed to a major record deal.

Hitmission Records out of Richmond Virginia is comprised of co-owners Clarence "CJ" Jenkins, Lamont "Hit L.A." Fleming, and Jerome "DJ Hollyrome" Owens. Lamont "Hit. L.A. Fleming" was responsible for vocal coaching Chris Brown, writing the songs for his demo album and producing the songs for his demo album along with his partner record producer Troy Taylor (Taylor discovered Trey Songz of Petersburg, Virginia). The demo songs that led to Chris Brown's records deal included: "Whose girl is that", "Heart to Heart", "Now and Later" which were unreleased from any of his major record label albums but are youtube sensations. Lamont would go on to later write and produce the last song on Chris Brown's debut album with Jive Records entitled "Thank You".

Development history: Chris Brown (from Tappahanock, VA) and his mother Joyce Hawkins came to us (Hitmission Records of Richmond, Virginia) in 2003-2004, by way of a tape we received at his Father's gas station. On the tape was a rapper (Magic) and a background singer (Chris Brown). We fell in love more with the background singer than the rapper whom we originally wanted to meet. After listening to the tape we asked the rapper for information on the singer, Chris. We later arranged a meeting and got him over to our studio's to work on an album. This album would later serve as Chris Brown's official demo tape that would later be used to audition Chris for Def Jam Records. Hitmission partnered up with Mystery Records and owner Timmy Allen (Jive Records)out of New York, N.Y., to create a video for one of the songs on the demo "Whose girl is that". In the video you will see Lamont "Hit. L.A. Fleming" vocal coaching Chris Brown and prepping him on how to sing the song that he (Fleming) wrote. Timmy Allen (R.Kelly, Stephanie Mills, Change) former producer and A&R with Jive Records along with Hitmission CEO Clarence Jenkins then took Chris and his mother to meet with Def Jam president L.A. Reid and his A&R at the time Tina Davis. Reid's interest in Chris was lukewarm, but his A&R Tina Davis saw the potential. Although Def Jam indeed offered a deal, Tina Davis, Timmy Allen and Clarence Jenkins saw a better opportunity elsewhere. Tina would later assume management from Hitmission and quit her position as A&R to focus solely on Chris Brown. With the help of Timmy Allen (who used his connections with Jive records, being a former exec and producer) and Clarence Jenkins, a deal was consumated with Jive Records instead of Def Jam. Barry Weiss and Mark Pitts of Jive saw the potential presented by Tina, Timmy and CJ.

That is how Chris Brown got his start!

source: Jay Owens Power 106 radio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_MMinvhQbw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kttCgHHxlK0 http://www.youtube.com/user/LamontFlemWorld9247?blend=2&ob=5#p/a/f/2/kttCgHHxlK0 http://www.myspace.com/dj_hollyrome/photos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj1qesRujkg

74.60.17.23 (talk) 21:09, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Already done The current version now has information about being discovered by Hitmission verified by reliable sources. Jnorton7558 (talk) 07:11, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Footnote #23 Chris Brown Bio....Hitmission

Our company members cited in VA Vibe magazine 2005 were not properly credited. Thanks for mentioning Lamont Fleming, but also included should be: Clarence "CJ" Jenkins-owner, Jerome "DJ Hollyrome" Owens-Disc Jockey/radio talent, and Timothy Allen (Former Jive Records Exec). All were responsible for forwarding Chris Brown to Tina Davis , then A&R at Def Jam, and all were responsible for Chris landing a deal with Jive Records.

This information can also be verified and substantiated.

Thanks

source: VA Vibe Magazine 2005 page 7 Brian Johnson — Preceding ≈≈≈≈ unsigned comment added by Jayowens2011 (talk • contribs) 10:25, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:44, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Chris Brown (American entertainer) → Chris Brown – Clear Primary topic. American singer: 333,894, 38,067, 38,067. Others: 3,911, 3,333, 2,284, 1,706, 970, 929, 788, 491, 444, 429, 386, 259, 257, 251, 250, 219, 91. Marcus Qwertyus 06:48, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

• Change – I agree, this Chris Brown is the most notable out of all the other ones. Oz ^talk 12:09, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
• Support. The clear primary topic, as shown by the page view statistics. Jenks24 (talk) 16:17, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
• Comment. I would say if we move this article to Chris Brown, we should definitely add a disambiguation template at the top. Because, as shown by Marcus Qwertyus, there are a lot of other Chris Browns on Wikipedia, and despite this one being the most famous (to us Americans), some people are bound to be looking for one of the other Chris Browns. Flyer22 (talk) 14:23, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
  • Yes, if this RM is closed as "move", then Chris Brown will be moved to Chris Brown (disambiguation) and a hatnote leading to the dab page will be added to this article. Jenks24 (talk) 15:04, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose Wikipedia should not be centered on what is popular in the U.S. There are other individuals named "Chris Brown" that are notable enough for articles. "Chris Brown" should be a disambiguation page. Strikerforce^{Talk Review me!} 16:16, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
  • And now that I think more about it, where would people find a list of the other Chris Browns? Would the disambiguation page be changed to Chris Brown (disambiguation)? It would have to be from what I see. Flyer22 (talk) 19:55, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
    • To Strikerforce: those statistics are for page views from around the world, not just the US. I agree with you that Wikipedia's intrinsic US bias can sometimes be a negative, but I don't believe this is one of those times. To Flyer22: yes this should have been formatted as a multi-move and Chris Brown will be moved to Chris Brown (disambiguation) if this RM is successful. Jenks24 (talk) 15:04, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. Chris Brown is a very common name. There cannot be a primary topic. This is what disambiguation pages are for. SamuelTheGhost (talk) 13:56, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
  • Simply being a common name does not automatically exclude the possibility there can be a primary topic. Say Barack Obama had a common name; he would still be the primary topic. Jenks24 (talk) 15:04, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
    • A better example would be Obama which redirects to Barack Obama despite being a common name. Marcus Qwertyus 23:21, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
      • Yep, the Barack Obama example was just off the top of my head (and your Obama example is a good one). Another one is John Howard. He is still the primary topic despite there being 24 bluelinks at John Howard (disambiguation) (in contrast, Chris Brown only has 18). Jenks24 (talk) 09:55, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. I honestly wanted to support this move but for the sake of being fair, I just couldn't. Chris Brown is such a common name, therefore it seems unfair to move this page alone into the namesake. I suggest that the page Chris Brown be left as a disambiguation page to avoid any confrontation. Peace. Yours faithfully, Kotakkasut. 13:08, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
• Change. If the traffic overwhelmingly supports this Chris Brown, then of course it should be changed. Whether or not the name is common is irrelevant. If Adolf Hitler was a common name, would we have a disambiguation page? I think not. Metalb (talk) 08:16, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Chris Brown

Chris Brown drew a huge crowd on "Today" show on Friday, July 15 when he performed for its Summer Concert Series. The R&B singer lured over 18,000 people to the free gig taking place at the Rockefeller Plaza. "The crowd for @ChrisBrown concert is now the biggest @todayshow crowd ever!" it was announced on the official Twitter of "Today". How does one get that added to his Wiki page? (168.215.127.2 (talk) 17:27, 12 August 2011 (UTC))

Point us to a reliable independent source that discusses it or mentions it. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:39, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Domestic violence case

At the end of the section it should be stated some of the relevant works of the victim on the domestic violence case which gives view to her stance on the subject, such as quotes from "I Love the way you lie" (i.e. It's alright because I like the way it hurts) and "S&M" (i.e.Now the pain is my pleasure cause nothing could measure, The affliction of the feeling leaves me wanting more and That's exactly what I've been yearning for, give it to me strong). Not that we're a court, but as a clarification the victim's mentality, it is highly recommended to put those informations in the article. Surely puts things in perspective.

H15 H16N355^{K1N6 M3} 21:09, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Neither of those works are relevant, neither were written by Rihanna. kibibu (talk) 02:43, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Even if they were, writing something like that would be original research with synthesis. | ^help_dןǝɥ | 02:54, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

ambiguous statement (cycle of violence)

In the domestic abuse case section, there is a line that Chris Brown's mother stated that she "does not believe in the cycle of violence." Does that mean that she stated that she doesn't believe it exists, doesn't believe it applies in this case, or does believe in breaking the cycle. I haven't seen the source, but it would be great if someone could tighten that line up. 24.90.158.174 (talk)DD —Preceding undated comment added 23:48, 12 February 2012 (UTC).

I watched the interview at the time it aired. In it, she says exactly what is stated in this article -- that she doesn't believe in the cycle of violence. From that, we can only infer that she doesn't believe in it. But I believe she meant "doesn't believe it exists" and was referring to "violent behavior learned as a child and then repeated as an adult, therefore continuing on in a perceived cycle," because that is how it seemed in the interview. I'd have to watch it again to be more certain. Flyer22 (talk) 21:20, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

chris brown is a punk who thinks that just because he won a grammy he is what? Still a punk who is no good.. what an a hole. I guess just becausae he won a grammy he thinks its ok to abuse a woman. I hope his mom anmd everybody who is prourd of him is as happy as he is for abusing as woman I nhope that mAKES HHIM FEEL LIKE NA MAN. maybe this is the only way he feels like a man. Chris you seem like youb are real prouad of yourself. DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A REAL MAN OR ARE YOUB PRETRENEDING> — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.51.129.205 (talk) 02:07, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Till I Die (feat. Wiz Khalifa & Big Sean) and Sweet Love

'Till I Die and Sweet Love should be added as singles that have been announced by Chris on twitter under Fortune.' — Preceding unsigned comment added by HochyPokeyy (talk • contribs) 17:27, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I thought that they were already listed as singles!? OK, I'll check on that!! OZODOR (talk) 18:25, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Relationships section removed

I have removed the relationships section because it doesn't need to be used. If it was really told that Chris Brown had such a love triangle or problems throughout the relationships, I would have kept it! It only tells who Brown has been dating, but everyone is usually in a relationship, so what makes his special?! OZODOR (talk) 18:23, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

A lot of Wikipedia articles on celebrities have a section detailing their romantic lives, usually titled Personal life (although the section in this article is titled Image and personal life because it's difficult to separate the two in Brown's case), but there wasn't much in what you removed. By looking at the Domestic violence case section, readers already know that he was dating Rihanna...and the only other tidbit in the section was about a largely unknown model he is dating. The section previously had more in it, but that was removed because it was backed to "very poor conflicting sources. WP should just state the outcome when there is a reliable source. WP is not a gossip mag." Flyer22 (talk) 18:27, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Noting here that the Relationships section was eventually added back...but differently. And it currently looks like this. Flyer22 (talk) 00:17, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Nude pic

Hi everyone! Is it really important to mention the thing about the naked pic? It didn't make a fuss like Prince Harry's, for example, so I'm wondering what the point is of keeping that section? Did it affect his image? Lots of celebrities have had at some point to deal with a naked pic but is it worth mentioning it on Wikipedia? Just askin' :) --Sofffie7 (talk) 20:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

I mentioned that problem about his naked picture because it seem to become viral, so I had to mention the incident of it! Is there a problem with me mentioning that?! The Smell of Magic 00:22, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, its relevant. The section stays. --76.105.145.143 (talk) 03:12, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Death

Just got the news from Brian Limmy that according to CNN he's dead after a suspected overdose. https://twitter.com/DaftLimmy/status/240937295044284416 86.165.99.86 (talk) 22:33, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Chris Brown is not dead, otherwise he would be all over the news and they would say he died of an overdose! Do you actually believe the person who mentioned that online because the news is where things really showdown!! The Smell of Magic 00:24, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 21:05, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

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Chris Brown (American entertainer) → Chris Brown (entertainer) – As that title already redirects here. Unreal7 (talk) 20:52, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose as there is also Chris Brown (Canadian entertainer) and propose changing the redirect for Chris Brown (entertainer) to point to Chris Brown. Aspects (talk) 01:58, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose per Aspects. Oz ^talk 08:11, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

RE: First paragraph and first line

Please delete the "convicted felon" text in the first sentence, as it is an unfair comment to add to this mans list of careers and talents. It does not see fit that it is only on his Wikipedia page and not any other famous persons. FadeAwayCasjun (talk) 23:03, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Done I don't know that it's unfair, but it does seem (1) inconsistent with many other articles and (2) jarring in a list of designations that are otherwise neutral. The lede quite properly does contain a summary of the felony and its aftermath, and I have split that off into its own paragraph. Rivertorch (talk) 06:27, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Move from "(singer)" to "(entertainer)"?

Hi guys and girls. I see the history:

03:06, 24 January 2010 Chasewc91 (talk | contribs) moved page Chris Brown (entertainer) to Chris Brown (American singer) (American and Canadian singers need to be distinguished with better disambiguation than entertainer and musician) (revert)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AChris_Brown_%28American_entertainer%29&diff=340969020&oldid=339743807

(cur | prev) 16:23, 24 January 2010‎ Rambo's Revenge (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (8,890 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Talk:Chris Brown (entertainer) to Talk:Chris Brown (American singer): associated talk page move that was protected so unmoved when main page was moved) (undo)

(cur | prev) 19:33, 16 March 2011‎ Flyer22 (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (50,273 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Chris Brown (American singer) to Chris Brown (American entertainer): Per talk page in January 2010... Talk:Chris Brown (American singer)#Title of article. He's not just a singer.) (undo)

(cur | prev) 19:36, 16 March 2011‎ Xeno (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (23,031 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Talk:Chris Brown (American singer) to Talk:Chris Brown (American entertainer): join with article, no comment on propriety of move) (undo)

Okay, but where's the discussion that en.wp has such a category as Category:American entertainers or that "entertainer" is standard English in printed sources for a singer with a couple of minor acting credits? This isn't standard English. See "singer Chris Brown" gets 415x GBhits, "entertainer Chris Brown" gets 1x GBhit. This is an ugly neologism/stylism, and not per WP:PRECISION accurate English to describe someone in Category:American singers. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:07, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

The discussion was had at #Title of article, above. Flyer22 (talk) 10:35, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Twitter account deletion

Are we going to pretend this never happened? It was all over the news. Too fucking many fans (read: neanderthals) work on this article. --76.105.145.143 (talk) 03:10, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

What is the relevance of someone deleting their Twitter account to a Wikipedia article, may I ask?  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 07:49, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Nude photos

Is this seriously a section of this article?  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 07:49, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Like I just stated in this edit summary, STATicVerseatide removed that section because it is "WP:TRIVIA. Not encyclopedic and contains no reliable sources," and I agree. As you saw, Vivaldi is the one who restored the material. Also, it's just one nude photograph, despite their obviously being copies all over the Internet.

In my opinion, the information about his altercation with Drake doesn't deserve its own section either; it didn't impact Brown's image or personal life in a major way. I'd been keeping the trivial information about the nude photo, altercation with Drake...and the neck tattoo all under one section,[1][2][3] because, as stated in those edit summaries, it's giving WP:UNDUE WEIGHT to have them as individual sections; they are trivial mentions that can't be expanded on much beyond a few sentences/single paragraph. This is a problem that often arises when having personal life information split away from the career information; a lot of our music biographies don't do this anymore, and it's likely that most of our WP:GA and WP:FA music biographies don't do this anymore. See the #section 1.4 needs to be reWritten : 2008–09: Graffiti album and domestic violence case section above; the only reason this Image and personal life section currently exists is because of the compromise that was made in that discussion. And people really need to stop adding on every little tidbit about Brown's domestic violence case; updates shouldn't be there. We should wait until his time is served, and then summarize all of that update information after that. Flyer22 (talk) 10:35, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Countless celebrities have nude picture(s) floating around the internet maybe a sentence in another section (as long as it is backed by a reliable source) would be good but its own section is completely unnecessary. It is all WP:TRIVIA, not notable and not encyclopedic.STATic message me! 18:38, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Wrong Album Title

His new album will be called "X". He Instagramed it before he closed his account.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.59.12.70 (talk) 19:47, 9 February 2013 (UTC) http://www.gowherehiphop.com/blogs/chris-brown-announces-new-album-x

Unhelpful disambiguator

This is a bit irrelevant since the article should really be at Chris Brown period, but "entertainer chris brown" gets only 143,000 Ghits, wheras "singer Chris Brown" gets, 6 960 000. Thats 48x as many, and 48x more familiar and probably 48x a likely search term (if anyone doesn't just search "Chris Brown" which is unlikely). Given that he's a singer not an entertainer, not helpful, and not following English usage. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:26, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

See the #Move from "(singer)" to "(entertainer)"? section above, where you brought up this topic previously and I replied. He's not just a singer, but also a dancer and actor, so "entertainer" does fit. But I understand what you mean about people not usually thinking of the word "entertainer" when they think of Chris Brown. Flyer22 (talk) 03:44, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

CHANGE THE ALBUM TITLE

The name of the album was changed to "X". http://rapfix.mtv.com/2012/11/27/did-chris-brown-just-instagram-a-new-album-title/ 99.155.21.116 (talk) 16:11, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

An editor has taken care of the matter. See here and here. Flyer22 (talk) 20:37, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 April 2013

COUPLE: Rihanna 190.28.245.125 (talk) 20:52, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Please specify what you would like to be changed. STATic message me! 21:03, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Plagarism controversy

Chris Brown has been accused of plagarism, the link to the report is on his X (Album) wiki. Please look it up. Oh and by the way I want to propose a new section detailing the controversy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.136.5.36 (talk) 07:43, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 3

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus -- tariqabjotu 04:42, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

---

Chris Brown (American entertainer) → Chris Brown (American singer) – the term "entertainer" appears to be a WP:HONORIFIC in some parts of the music industry. But Chris Brown does not meet the usual meaning of entertainer as an all round vaudeville or Las Vegas style performer. He doesn't do stand up comedy, he doesn't do magic tricks, he doesn't have a drag act, and he has only a few supporting acting roles. In short he's a singer. "the singer Chris Brown" gets 188 results in English books. "the entertainer Chris Brown" gets zero results. Most of the other singer articles have already been moved/returned to (singer). --Relisted. -- tariqabjotu 19:03, 11 July 2013 (UTC) In ictu oculi (talk) 05:42, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

• No move. I've responded to you about this twice now, at #Move from "(singer)" to "(entertainer)"? and at #Unhelpful disambiguator. You didn't reply either of those times, and now, as seen, you have finally started an official move request. Like I stated in the "Unhelpful disambiguator" section, "[Chris Brown's] not just a singer, but also a dancer and actor, so 'entertainer' does fit." It is not an honorific in this case. It was chosen as a more accurate description for his career. I'm also not sure what you mean by "Most of the other singer articles have already been moved/returned to (singer)." I doubt that many other Wikipedia articles about singers were disambiguated with "entertainer." That stated, I don't mind much if "singer" is used instead of "entertainer" in the case of titling Chris Brown's article. Flyer22 (talk) 05:54, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Flyer22. It's not unusual to gauge local consensus on the Talk page before a RM. As regards your move 16 March 2011‎ Chris Brown (Canadian singer) to Chris Brown (Canadian entertainer) a RM moved it away from (Canadian entertainer) to Chris Brown (Canadian musician) last week. The entertainer dab really needs to be reserved for where WP:RS use such a title by WP:CRITERIA. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:05, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

I take it that you requested that move? It must have been listed in the "Technical requests" section instead of in the "Contested technical requests" section, considering that there is no discussion on the article's talk page about it. That move is accurate; it was not changed back to the disambiguator "singer," which is not too accurate with regard to his career. By contrast, you are arguing to replace "entertainer" with "singer" for this Chris Brown article...even though that is less accurate than "entertainer" in this case. Part of what WP:CRITERIA argues for is precision. The disambiguator "entertainer" is more precise than the disambiguator "singer" in this case, especially considering that Brown plans to keep building his acting career. And plenty of reliable sources call Brown an entertainer, just as they do for most celebrities. Flyer22 (talk) 06:31, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, see link, it was a public RM of several minor BLPs with "(entertainer)" - a rapper, singers, a couple of pornstars. I assume you mean html sources since there are zero Google Book ones. Sure if we widen the pool to non-print sources then "entertainer Chris Brown" starts to appear. But it's still at a ratio of 88.5:3.5 and many of those will be fansites, blogs and so on. Titling discussions don't usually give much weight to such sources, particularly if they are in a small minority. In any case happy to hear what others have to say. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:08, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't just mean online sources. But moving on: Per WP:TITLE, which is what WP:CRITERIA is a part of, titling articles is not always about a name or phrase being reported in reliable sources or the most common name or phrase being reported in reliable sources; for example, we have plenty of article titles that are simply descriptive rather than being a term or phrase used by reliable sources or by most reliable sources. Furthermore, we are obviously dealing with a disambiguated title, so what factors into titling disambiguated titles is different than what factors into titling non-disambiguated titles. And on that note, each instance of titling an article is a case-by-case matter, even with WP:COMMONNAME. Madonna is called a signer significantly more than she is called an entertainer by reliable sources, for example, and yet her Wikipedia article is located at Madonna (entertainer) because of the "singer-songwriter, actress, author, director, entrepreneur and philanthropist" categories she fits in (maybe even more so because of the attention that has been given to her acting career). Yes, that's more categories than Chris Brown is in, but she is still primarily known as a singer, and Brown, like her, is still more than just a singer. Anyway, I more than welcome comments from others on this matter. Flyer22 (talk) 08:41, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

• Support move. He's best known as a singer, and the use of "(entertainer)" as a disambiguator is generally wrong -that being the nice way to put it. 168.12.253.66 (talk) 17:42, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. I truly do not understand the distaste for the word "entertainer" in this context. As has already been pointed out to the nom, "entertainer" means "a singer, comedian, dancer, reciter, or the like, especially a professional one" - in short, one who engages in any form of entertainment. It's certainly not limited to an "all round vaudeville or Las Vegas style performer". Lots of reliable sources use "entertainer" for precisely the situation we have here - when a performer is notable for more than one type of entertainment. And indeed, lots of reliable sources, from newspapers to books to scholarly journal articles, call the subject of this RM an "entertainer":
  • Fox News ("Controversial entertainer Chris Brown could be in big trouble.")
  • Los Angeles Times ("Colorful and toothy faces adorn a retaining wall at entertainer Chris Brown's Hollywood Hills house.")
  • Richmond Times-Dispatch ("This May 10, 2013 photo shows Graffiti painted on the walls of the home of entertainer Chris Brown in Hollywood Hills, Calif.")
  • NBC/E! Online (""I just tried my best to be the best man I could be over the years and just show her how remorseful and sorry I was for the incident and that time was probably the worst part of my life and being that she has and she's a wonderful person I'm eternally grateful and thankful," the entertainer told the American Idol host on his radio show.")
  • Temporal, Paul. Advanced Brand Management. 2011. ("Wrigley seems determined to win, however, and its costly marketing campaigns have used tennis icons Venus and Serena Williams, entertainer Chris Brown, and other celebrities to endorse the brand.")
  • Clear, Todd R. et al. American Corrections in Brief. 2011. p.114. ("It is likely that Chris Brown will successfully complete his probation term because, as an entertainer, he knows that he will constantly be in the public eye.")
  • AM Green, "The French Horror Film Martyrs and the Destruction, Defilement, and Neutering of the Female Form", Journal of Popular Film & Television, 2011. ("Rihanna's 2009 beating at the hands of fellow entertainer Chris Brown received a great deal of press.")
  • MC Hopson, "Chris Brown, Rihanna, and Countless Others: The Catalyst for Violence-prevention Education and Awareness", Black Women, Gender & Families, 2009. ("Allegations of relationship abuse involving entertainers Chris Brown and Rihanna contain multiple messages for youth and young adults.")

Now, maybe this is an ENGVAR issue or something, but there's simply nothing wrong with the word "entertainer" applying to performers like Brown. Dohn joe (talk) 18:03, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

The thing that is wrong with it is that it's basically an "achievement badge" for some singers within a certain genre, implying that they're better or more important than competitors who don't have the achievement badge. Also, of course, the fact that it's a convention used for singers within the one certain genre, and not others, which is not neutral. 168.12.253.66 (talk) 18:33, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

A certain genre? Which genre encompasses Madonna, Gloria Estefan, Taylor Swift, Bette Midler, Harry Belafonte and Stevie Wonder? Bottom line, if reliable sources use a descriptor, then we should, too. Dohn joe (talk) 18:55, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, bottom line, if reliable sources use a descriptor, then we should, too but they don't Again "the singer Chris Brown" gets 188 results in English books while "the entertainer Chris Brown" gets 1 result, Paul Temporal Advanced Brand Management: Managing Brands in a Changing World. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:50, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by "but they don't". I already presented half a dozen reliable sources at random - newspapers, books, scholarly journals - that describe Chris Brown as an "entertainer". There are dozens more where they came from. Dohn joe (talk) 17:25, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

I see that I overlooked In ictu oculi having kept this post about reliable sources not using the descriptor "entertainer" for Brown when I replied below to his or her "reliable sources don't" comments. Clearly, as shown above and below, In ictu oculi means book and/or magazine sources ("print sources"). Flyer22 (talk) 17:40, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

• Support per nom (I'd also be fine with (American rapper)). He is not primarily notable for his dancing or acting. --BDD (talk) 16:56, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

He's not known as a rapper either, BDD, not generally anyway (and I only state "generally" in this case because there might be some recordings of him rapping). Flyer22 (talk) 17:10, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Note: The dancing aspect is a bit debatable, considering that Brown is often noted for his dancing and his dancing is often compared to Michael Jackson's dancing styles and the dancing styles of others. But out of singing or dancing, I'd also state that he is primarily known as a singer. Flyer22 (talk) 17:15, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm not actually familiar with any of his music, but chris brown rapper suggests that he is indeed known as a rapper. --BDD (talk) 17:18, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Again, not generally. I'm not one of his fans and I'm not as familiar with some others when it comes to his work, but, out of the songs of his I have heard (I've only heard several), I have not heard any song that includes him rapping. Nor have I seen any performance of him rapping (it's always singing and/or dancing). And I'm sure that sources using rapper are confusing him with being a rapper (like sources often do when speaking of an R&B artist) or are confusing what rapper means...unless he actually has rapped on any of his or others' works. I'm going to alert Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians to this discussion. I would alert Wikipedia:WikiProject R&B and Soul Music to it, but that project is very inactive (though both projects are generally inactive). Flyer22 (talk) 17:28, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

• Support per nomination and our recent other moves in getting rid of the entertainer disambiguator.  — Statυs (talk, contribs) 21:17, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

  Why do you dislike "entertainer" in this context? Don't reliable sources use it - why shouldn't WP? Dohn joe (talk) 21:30, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose - As he is known also as a dancer and actor which along with singer all fall under (entertainer). No reason to change it especially when multiple reliable sources use the term. STATic message me! 21:57, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. "Christopher Maurice "Chris" Brown (born May 5, 1989) is an American recording artist, dancer, and actor." The over-specific "singer" is less accurate than "entertainer". --SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:30, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

User:SmokeyJoe, no argument, that's 100% what Wikipedia says but Wikipedia is not a reliable source, and in this case the lead is performing a bit of a fan eulogy. In the reliable-source reality universe Chris Brown is not a dancer, he is a simply a singer who can dance: "the dancer chris brown" gets zero results in print, and only 5 in html. As for whether he's an actor: again "the actor Chris brown" gets zero results in print - and only 1 or 2 maybe, in html, demonstrating that he isn't an actor, he's a singer who just like every other singer has made a few attempts at acting. Compare "the actor Will Smith". WP:HONORIFIC doesn't directly address this term, but something is happening among fan pages that isn't happening in print sources, and we're supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a fan blog. Hence the proposal to reflect print source terminology here. That's the reason. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:50, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Before you removed these two recent posts of yours, I was going to state that Dohn joe demonstrated above that reliable sources do refer to Brown as an "entertainer" (just like, as I stated higher above in this section, most celebrities are often referred to as entertainers). And none of those sources he demonstrated are blogs or fansites, and he included book sources. Your way of defining what is a reliable source is not supported by WP:Reliable sources. "Print sources" are not considered any more reliable/given more weight than online sources by the WP:Reliable sources guideline and the WP:Verifiability policy. The lead stating "recording artist, dancer, and actor" is no different, or barely any different, than how most Wikipedia leads are with regard to famous people, including articles of WP:GA or WP:FA status. That's not "a bit of a fan eulogy." And as for "In the reliable-source reality universe Chris Brown is not a dancer," Brown is indeed a dancer. He is also an actor. Saying that he is neither is your opinion. He calls himself a dancer and actor, and reliable sources identify him as a dancer and/or actor, and therefore, going by only that, he is a dancer and actor. Flyer22 (talk) 10:29, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Flyer22, before seeing this comment I removed "dancer" from the lead with this edit summary requesting a reliable source but did not remove Category:African-American dancers. If you can find a source which states that Chris Brown is notable as a dancer then please restore "and dancer." In ictu oculi (talk) 11:41, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

And I reverted you, per what I stated above. There are plenty of reliable sources, including some in this article, that call him a dancer and/or show that he is notable as a dancer; like I stated above, his dancing styles are often compared to Michael Jackson's and Usher's dancing styles, though the "Success and comparison to other artists" section doesn't yet largely single out the dancing aspect and needs significant expansion. It's certainly not his voice that keeps getting compared to those artists. And to further elaborate on my feelings with regard to your definition of a reliable source, I'm sure that not all of the magazines that Brown has been featured in are on Google Books; in fact, I'm sure that most are not. Flyer22 (talk) 12:33, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Flyer22, if you can find a source which states that Chris Brown is notable as a dancer then please restore "and dancer." What you'll be looking for are sources which say "the American dancer Chris Brown", "Chris Brown the dancer", "Chris Brown is also renowned as a dancer" - a source which justifies the lede statement that Chris Brown is a dancer. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:07, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Billboard, Vol. 123, No. 11, Apr. 2-9, 2011, p. 37: "Although best—known as a singer/dancer, Chris Brown has been testing out his rapping skills for quite some time." So there it is. Let's move on. Dohn joe (talk) 17:25, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

In ictu oculi, I'm not sure why you are repeating yourself, or why you feel the need to patronize me (unless that is simply your personality), but I already answered above. No, to have "dancer" included, this article does not need a source that specifically states "Chris Brown is notable as a dancer" or any wording similar to that; all it needs are reliable sources "that call him a dancer and/or show that he is notable as a dancer," and this article already has that. It does not need "print sources" (which are still online sources if they include a url, by the way). I do not need to follow your peculiar sourcing regiment, and I won't be doing so. If it were a case of WP:UNDUE WEIGHT to call him a dancer, you would have a valid point on this matter. But it's not undue weight to call him such. He is known as a dancer far more than he is known as an actor, and yet you chose to remove "dancer" and leave in "actor" with the qualifier "occasional." You have an odd take on the WP:Verifiability policy and the WP:Reliable sources guideline, and I pity anyone who subscribes to it. Flyer22 (talk) 16:53, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Flyer22, I was repeating myself because you did not provide a source. We cannot simply say what we "know" about WP:BLPs. DohnJoe has now provided a source, and it should be added. It still doesn't mean he is usually known as "the entertainer Chris Brown" in reliable third party (third party means non-fan) sources. He isn't. We are an encyclopedia, not a fan page and should not be using fan language about singers. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:26, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

In ictu oculi, the reason that I did not provide sources is explained to you in my "16:53, 12 July 2013 (UTC)" comment. And let's get the following straight right now: I did not state that we can simply say what we know about WP:BLPs. And I do not appreciate you implying that I did. I am going by Wikipedia's policies and guidelines on this matter; you are going by your odd interpretations of those policies and guidelines (such as "print sources"). Once again, when it comes to WP:Verifiability, all we need to do is provide reliable sources that describe Brown by these descriptors and to make certain that we are not giving undue weight to any aspect. Well, as has been stated to you time and time again in this discussion, reliable sources describe Brown by these descriptors -- a lot of reliable sources, in fact. And Brown is credited as a dancer in reliable sources quite often. No one in this discussion has stated that Brown is "usually known as 'the entertainer Chris Brown' in reliable third party sources" or any other type of sources. What editors have stated in this discussion is that using "entertainer" as a disambiguator for the title of this Chris Brown article is fine because Brown is more than just a singer and is described as an entertainer in a lot of reliable sources. And as a very experienced Wikipedia editor, who is also very familiar with the WP:GA and WP:FA processes, I certainly do not have to be told by you or anyone else what reliable third-party sources are. Nor do I have to be told that this is an encyclopedia. And as I have also made clear in this discussion, I am not a Chris Brown fan. So any implication that I am is ridiculous. Any implication that any of us are a Chris Brown fan, simply because we disagree with you on this topic, including that any language is honorific or fanboyish/fangirlish, is a tactic (that can be insulting, and is to me) to make our points seem less rational. "Entertainer," which, again, is used as a disambiguator for the Madonna (entertainer) article, is not even solely fan language; in fact, I wouldn't call it fan language at all. I've stated enough on these topics; you won't be changing my mind on the titling aspect or with regard to using the "dancer" and "actor" descriptors," just as it is obvious that I won't be changing your mind on the matters. Flyer22 (talk) 01:04, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

I have no intention to persuade the editor who made the move to (American entertainer), I am merely restating that "the singer Chris Brown" gets 188 results in English books while "the entertainer Chris Brown" gets 1 print result.

The only source for "entertainer" in the article is "Multi-talented Entertainer Chris Brown Goes 'Back to School,' Taking on a Starring Role in the St. Jude Math-A-Thon (R) Video". PR Newswire. Archived from the original on December 4, 2011. ...as it says, it is a "PR Newswire," it remains my view that this reflects fan language rather than 3rd party objective encyclopaedic print source language. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:55, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

As is shown in the #Title of article section above, the title of this article already had the disambiguator "entertainer" in it. I disambiguated it with "American entertainer" when moving it from the disambiguator "American singer" for the reasons, which had agreement, stated in that discussion; the disambiguator "American singer" did not last long and the article was not disambiguated with "singer" for the reasons that you want it to be. As for the rest of your comment, to reply to it would be mostly repeating what I have already stated; thus, I refer you back to those statements. Flyer22 (talk) 02:10, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

In ictu oculi, I expect that the lede should be correct, correct with respect to the best overall sources that reference the lede, before entertaining requests to refine the title. The lede should also be stable. Otherwise, I oppose renaming. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:02, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi, I don't know. Maybe Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a reliable source should contain something on the relation of article content to RMs maybe it shouldn't. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:41, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

SmokeyJoe has clarified that he would be following what reliable sources state, which is what the lead should be based on, not what a Wikipedia editor has "stated" in the article. Flyer22 (talk) 12:33, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

• Support. "Recording artist"? (Honorific-ish too, in my mind. Most musicians record what they perform.) What is being recorded? Chris Brown singing. Not dancing. Not entertaining. I think IIO phrases it well: he can dance, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's a dancer. The same thing goes for actor. HandsomeFella (talk) 21:29, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
• Support per reasons above. --Article editor (talk) 02:40, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose He does act and does dance as a profession, so he is an actor and a dancer. And since music videos come with the territory of being a "recording artist", his dancing is also technically recorded. I don't think he can sing, tho, LOL. I would be fine with "(American recording artist)" since music videos are just about as important to his product and what he is know for as his singing, but entertainer would suffice to encompass both, and it's been used in many reputed news sources. Instead of focusing on the number of results at GoogleBooks for one variation of "singer Chris Brown", I would defer to the most reliable sources on this article's topic, which hopefully are already cited in this article. Reliable book sources on a topic tend to be written in retrospect, and this dude is not done yet; how many of these books from the search for "singer Chris Brown" could really be used in this article? Dan56 (talk) 05:07, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
• I'd support moving to Chris Brown. He's arguably the primary topic ahead of everyone else. Unreal7 (talk) 21:21, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Others have stated similarly; see #Requested move above, if you haven't already (I added "if you haven't already" because I'm reminded now that you started the second requested move discussion, but a different editor disambiguated that heading with the number 2, which, since you didn't add that disambiguation, means that you might not have been aware that there was a previous requested move discussion). Flyer22 (talk) 21:25, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

I could support that too. HandsomeFella (talk) 20:51, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 4

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved by Hahc21. --BDD (talk) 16:31, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

• Chris Brown (American entertainer) → Chris Brown
• Chris Brown → Chris Brown (disambiguation)

– Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, supported by the fact that this article was viewed nearly 627,000 times in the last 90 days. To reiterate what past discussions have argued, just because the name is common doesn't mean we can't have a primary topic. On the contrary, this singer is clearly more prominent than any of the other people listed on the disambiguation and should be given the plain title. WikiRedactor (talk) 16:59, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

• Indifferent: I'm indifferent, or rather conflicted, on the matter because of what was stated at #Requested move above (not the arguments about "Chris Brown" being a common name, however). By the way, I was about to add the number 4 to this section's title, but you beat me to it. Thanks for having the foresight to do so. For a person to save a post in this section would have otherwise taken that person to the Requested move section above because it has an identical title and is the first to have that title on this talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 17:09, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support - per previous RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:05, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

The previous RM was to change to Chris Brown (American Singer) in an attempt to remove (entertainer) wheras this is an an argument to remove a qualifier all together on the grounds that this person is thr primary meaning of Chris Brown. The problem is what you are now supporting is not what you supported previously since the current request has nothing to do whatsoever with removing (entertainer) from Wikipedia, nor would its removal here due to primary topic issues necessary apply to other articles with (entertainer)if the person in question is not the primary topic.--70.49.82.207 (talk) 22:39, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

As I said, support - per previous RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:07, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support - as I said above. Unreal7 (talk) 16:31, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support. "entertainer" is still a bad disambiguator. 168.12.253.66 (talk) 13:58, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support. It's baffling that this Chris Brown is not at the main, undisambiguated page. Lots of people have opposed by saying "it's too common of name" which makes no sense. Everyone knows who Chris Brown is. His page gets the most hits, Googling "chris brown" gives results all about him (even with the brief mentions of others, he still dominates them) - the primary topic is obvious. Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 16:46, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support for all the obvious reasons mentioned above. Percxyz (Call me Percy, it's easier) 00:34, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chris Brown which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 04:28, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Image and personal life section split

‎STATicVapor, I disagree with this edit you made. The domestic violence case had an impact on Brown's image and is part of his personal life, which is why it was under the "Image and personal life" heading as a subsection. It has more to do with his image than his other relationships and altercations with Drake and Frank Ocean. The Legal issues section you created is mostly about the Domestic violence case; you stated "This is about various cases," but I point out that those cases, with the exception of your addition to that material, concern the domestic violence case. And, again, all of these cases have to do with his personal life. Not to mention that, with your aforementioned edit, Rihanna is now first linked in the Legal issues section instead of in the Relationships section (though that is a minor sidenote that can obviously be very easily fixed). Additionally, the Legal issues section needs significant trimming, no matter if that material is placed where it was before or where you have placed it; I stated before on this talk page that "people really need to stop adding on every little tidbit about Brown's domestic violence case; updates shouldn't be there. We should wait until his time is served, and then summarize all of that update information after that." In fact, we can summarize the update matters now. Flyer22 (talk) 18:10, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

To me, that subsection had gotten exponentially long, according to the MOS we are supposed to use subheadings sparingly. His more recent cases were only related to the Rihanna case in the slightest, as they were possible parole violations, but besides that they were not directly related to her or domestic violence, so the former subheading did not properly summarize what the section is about. But with a heading named "legal issues", that generally clarifies everything that can be found in the section. A section named "Image and personal life" is pretty vague, and legal troubles (outside of the Rihanna case) do not really affect his public images. It is okay to separate a long criminal history from other sections as is frequently done with famous troublemakers (examples could be Gucci Mane and DMX). He may have sneaked out on significant jail time, but the coverage of his crimes have been well documented. On your last point, how are these updates on the domestic violence case? Aside from him being on probation from it, the last two are separate legal issues that are separate from that case. To be honest I just noticed the majority of the section is about the Rihanna case, but that just seems to be a need for trimming the section. The section about the tattoo is pretty irrelevant at all in an encyclopedia, also the sixth paragraph is really not needed either. There are also other legal issues he has had that I know of that I found surprising were not in the section. In the end I would like to thank you for bringing this to the talk page, rather then just reverting. STATic message me! 18:34, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in my reply, STATicVapor. I got distracted by other matters on Wikipedia. Anyway, moving on to the matter at hand: You made the Image and personal life section shorter, but removing one subsection from where it is most relevant is not what I consider an improvement. There are WP:Good and WP:Featured articles with more subheadings than that section. Additionally, Wikipedians (ones as experienced as you and me) generally encourage precise subheading titles, though I can't remember what WP:Manual of Style aspect covers that (I'm sure that it was covered there or on a related page before, if no longer there). The title "Domestic violence case" is more precise than "Legal issues" and that is what the currently titled "Legal issues" material was completely about (except for the "Brown was tested positive for cannabis" bit) until you added a little to it. The fact that the other matters that concern his domestic violence case are not major points does not make them any less about that domestic violence case; I call them updates with regard to that case because they all concern that case (they are results of it). The "Image and personal life" heading is no more vague than the "Legal issues" heading, and these headings are headings that are found in our Wikipedia articles about living or dead people; "Image," "Public image" and "Personal life" are more common, however, than "Image and personal life," "Public image and personal life," "Media image and personal life" or "Legal issues"; the headings are combined when it makes sense to combine them. It makes sense to combine them as "Image and personal life," with subsections, for Brown's article, significantly more so before we had the trivial "Altercations with Drake and Frank Ocean" subsection. I feel that the Domestic violence case heading should be added back and its material relocated within the Image and personal life section, and that the update matters should be significantly reduced. I agree that the article won't suffer without the tattoo information, but maybe because it got significant attention/there were misunderstandings about it, we should keep the two sentences that are there about it and remove the "Brown has various tattoos and his favorite one is a Jūbei Kibagami on his left shoulder." sentence. The Image and personal life section should not only discuss the positive aspects with regard to Brown's music career (the positive impact it has had), but the negative aspects as well. The negative aspects started with the domestic violence case, and there should be commentary about how public perception of Brown changed during that time (other than the text that states "several commercial ads featuring him were suspended, his music was withdrawn from multiple radio stations").

That stated, the good thing about the "Legal issues" headings is that it holds the "On October 27, 2013, Brown was arrested for felony assault" material that you added. It can also hold the "Altercations with Drake and Frank Ocean" material, which will take away one extra subheading, and, while not major legal points, are still legal issues. If we are to keep the "Domestic violence case" heading and the "Legal issues" heading, I feel that both should be subsections of the "Image and personal life" section and that the "Legal issues" heading should be changed to "Other legal issues."

As for having brought this to the talk page instead of reverting you, you're welcome; I'm not so passionate about this matter that I felt I had to revert you, and it's not like your edit was destructive. Besides that, you are a good editor and we have worked fine together on this article. Besides that, I felt that you likely would have reverted me, so my revert ultimately would not have accomplished anything with regard to our disagreement on this matter (other than you first being alerted to my disagreement via the revert, so I left this WP:Dummy edit first and then commented further). Flyer22 (talk) 21:50, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

I can understand that, I just got done writing the article for the new Donald Glover album, damn did that take a good chunk out of my Sunday. After thinking this over more, you have a good point, the overwhelming majority of the section is about the Rihanna issue, so it would only be applying proper weight to give it its own section. I am fine with moving it back into the "image and personal life", but where should the recent issues such as the hit-and-run allegation and yesterdays assault go? I am thinking another subsection named "other legal issues" would work fine, and to go ahead and throw the Frank Ocean and Drake issues in with that section would work even better. As long as we do not have a whole section for a nude picture again, I cannot believe that was ever on this page haha. STATic message me! 23:00, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Late reply again, obviously. And agreed, STATicVapor. Yes, the "the hit-and-run allegation and yesterdays assault" can fit well in an "Other legal issues" section.

On a side note: Do you know where the "use subheadings sparingly" link you provided above points to specifically at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout. Looking at the redirect page and talk page for it, it's a link that has been around since 2002. As noted above, I also don't know where the WP:Manual of Style or some other guideline advises that we use precise headings. So perhaps these aspects have been removed since we last read them, respectively? Flyer22 (talk) 17:23, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Intro

I added "felon" to his description, as his numerous legal troubles (arrests, confrontations with members of the public, DA alleging that he didn't complete his community service), status as a convicted felon, and recently being arrested for another felony (Oct 2013) warrants the description. -wjs23 16:43, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

I reverted, as noted here and here. WP:IMPARTIAL (an aspect of WP:Neutral) and other matters at WP:Neutral address this type of thing. So does WP:LABEL. Though WP:IMPARTIAL currently speaks of disputes, the wider implication of what it means should be clear (I may have that policy altered to explicitly be a bit more broad). Also see this discussion, which is similar, on my talk page.

On a side note: I moved your comment down, per Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#Layout (a new discussion section goes at the bottom). Also remember to properly sign your username at the end of the comments you make on Wikipedia talk pages. All you have to do to sign your username is simply type four tildes (~), like this: ~~~~. I properly signed your username for you above (having added the time stamp). Flyer22 (talk) 17:23, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Enters rehab

On October 29, 2013, Brown's public relations person Nicole Perna announced that Brown had checked into a California rehabilitation facility. -207.97.161.50 (talk) 01:50, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

References

Blp

Static, so does this mean that if i add the gender and the word "statutory" you would be fine with the edit? Pass a Method talk 01:50, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

The only thing Brown ever stated was that he lost his virginity at age 8, so if anything that is the only thing we should state. Even that, could have been an overstatement or blatantly not true. Since he has never claimed or stated he was "raped" in any sense of the term, and there was never any legal case related to the situation, it would be a gross WP:BLP violation to state in the article that he was "raped". So that should not be included in the article, no matter if some sources want to make their own WP:OR and synthesis of what he said. STATic message me! 05:14, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

I personally don't see how mention of this is notable for the article. With that said, if this were to be added, perhaps something along the lines of "In late 2013, Brown admitted to having lost his virginity at the age of eight to an unknown female who was in her mid-teens at the time." would be a more suitable way to put it, instead of blatantly mentioning him being raped. Percxyz (Call me Percy, it's easier) 08:50, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Holla At Me

why i can't find any information about the song Holla At Me (Chris Brown Feat. Tyga)??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhm96 (talk • contribs) 01:59, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 March 2014

chris brown was born on june 23 Billyslater11 (talk) 23:42, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Not done: The source in the article disagrees with you. Please provide a reliable source to support your request. --ElHef (Meep?) 23:48, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Note: In this edit, Billyslater11 states that Chris Brown was born on May 20th. And above, he states June 23rd. Flyer22 (talk) 23:51, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Chris Brown

I propose adding the following content under the following headings:

Domestic Violence Case

In 2009 Chris brown was arrested for alleged domestic violence dispute and felony against former Bajan-born (Barbadian) girlfriend Rihanna.[1] Speculations on the couple began when the two did not show up to the 2009 40th Annual Grammy Awards.[2] This absence resulted in the cancellations of both their performances at the Grammy’s that Sunday.[2]

According to multiple reports, pop star Rihanna was physically beaten up by Brown in the early hours of Sunday morning in Los Angeles.[2]

The night began shortly after Clive Davis’ pre-Grammy party previous Saturday.[2] Sources say the couple began fighting after Brown allegedly received a text message from another women.[1] The Couple continued to fight in Brown’s rented Lamborghini, where Brown eventually pulled over.[1] Rihanna responding by tossing Brown’s car keys out of the car.[2] Frantically Brown searched for the keys—unable to find them when he then began to allegedly choke the pop star threatening to kill her.[2]

Pop star Rihanna explained to police how Brown “punched her with his fits”.[2] According to sources, Rihanna did not call 911 after Brown fled on foot, rather someone in the area who had overheard the incident called. Later Rihanna identified Chris Brown as the man who assaulted her, matching additional physical evidence police had found.[2]

With the situation still tender, Rihanna has said to not want Chris Brown present during her performance in the annual 47th Grammy awards on February 8, 2015.[4] According to other sources, this was not the first incident between the couple.[3] Brown released on 50,000[1] bail has been charged with assault.[5]

Early Life

Being surrounded by domestic violence his whole life, Chris Brown grew up around his stepfather who was abusive towards his mother.[1] According to Brown, abuse was "an influence in me about how to treat a woman."[1]

References

[1] Pieces, L., Way, K., Blessings, B., Void, R., demo), E., Sand, R., & Rink, C. (2009). Chris Brown and Rihanna: The Whole Story. SPIN. Retrieved 9 February 2015, from http://www.spin.com/articles/chris-brown-and-rihanna-whole-story/ [2] The Huffington Post,. (2009). Rihanna Bloodied, Beaten, Bitten By Chris Brown: Reports (UPDATE). Retrieved 9 February 2015, from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/09/rihanna-bloodied-beaten-b_n_165474.html [3] http://www.tmz.com,. (2015). Chris Brown and Rihanna | TMZ.com. Retrieved 9 February 2015, from http://www.tmz.com/category/chris-brown-and-rihanna/ [4] John, S. (2015). Grammy Awards 2015: Rihanna does not want Chris Brown to be present during her performance. International Business Times UK. Retrieved 9 February 2015, from http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/grammy-awards-2015-rihanna-does-not-want-chris-brown-be-present-during-her-performance-1486916 [5] Duke, A. (2015). Chris Brown jailed on felony assault charge - CNN.com. CNN. Retrieved 9 February 2015, from http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/27/showbiz/chris-brown-arrested/

--CassMac22 (talk) 04:41, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

edit semi protected

Can someone add in the Relationships section that he is a father of a 9 month old baby.source

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 16:08, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 March 2015

105.239.61.130 (talk) 09:40, 13 March 2015 (UTC) hOLLYWOOD RECENTLY DICOVERED THAT CHRIS BROWN(A.K.A: Breezy) IS THE FATHER OF A 9 MOUNTHS OLD GIRL THAT HE HAD WITH 31 old MODEL NIA.

Not done: as you have not requested a specific change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Most importantly, you must cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 10:28, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Bipolar

Since I'm sure it will come up in the near future, some sources are saying Brown suffers from bipolar disorder as well as PTSD among some other things. However, all of these articles are based on really questionable sources. For instance, TIME cites The Hollywood Reporter, who cites E! Online who just says "According to legal documents obtained by E! News". None of this is verifiable and obviously Brown himself hasn't commented on it publicly yet, therefore to include it would be a violation of WP:BLP. A more reputable source should be required, although I think nothing should be added until acknowledgement by Brown. Scarce2 (talk) 18:42, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

the los angeles times (more reliable than e!) also cites court documents as being bipolar and also says a judge noted "underlying mental health condition that was a mitigating factor in his sentencing" [4][5] Naue7 (talk) 00:42, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 March 2015

March of 2015, news broke out that Christopher Maurice brown fathered a baby girl named Royalty. The mother of royalty is named Nia Guzman, a former friend of Chris' then girlfriend, Karrueche Tran. It is said that Karrueche Tran & Chris brown had an argument prior to the release of the child incident and Chris called Karrueche the night before to warn her about the news but she ignored his calls. Karrueche made it clear through twitter that she wants nothing to do with Chris or his "baby mama" drama. Barbiexoxo (talk) 21:32, 22 March 2015 (UTC)barbiexoxo

Not done: There are multiple issues with your request:

• It's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.
• Please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.

--I am k6ka ^{Talk to me!} _{See what I have done} 21:45, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2015

Can U Please put in new news of how he has a daughter now? TheYoungProdigy247 (talk) 04:10, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --I am k6ka ^{Talk to me!} _{See what I have done} 14:09, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 April 2015

Please add in after Chris Brown embarked on his Between The Sheets Tour with Trey Songz in early 2015, under the "2013–present: X and Fan of a Fan: The Album" section that Chris Brown has a 9-month old baby girl called Royalty with this lady named Nia Guzman-Amey, also called "Chris' baby momma" and that he's battling over Royalty's birth certificate. 1 -- 1.http://hollywoodlife.com/2015/03/05/chris-brown-baby-name-royalty-daughter-nia-amey/ Princesskkthat1st (talk) 15:56, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

 Partly done Added under Chris Brown#Relationships with other sources. Naue7 (talk) 17:39, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2015

its stupid unprotect it so we can see the soruce tha you got the information fromḕ [[--24.96.30.160 (talk) 19:13, 16 June 2015 (UTC)|thumbnail|center19:13, 16 June 2015 (UTC)19:13, 16 June 2015 (UTC)19:13, 16 June 2015 (UTC)19:13, 16 June 2015 (UTC)íííí∗∗]]

fr fr 

24.96.30.160 (talk) 19:13, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. Also, all sources used on this page are available despite the semiprotection, there's a reference list at the bottom of the article. Cannolis (talk) 19:16, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 August 2015

Carolyn Alfre-Carey (talk) 23:24, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Stickee (talk) 01:39, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 14 January 2016

Ttdatgurl (talk) 15:39, 14 January 2016 (UTC) Chris Brown is thinking into adopting a girl named Tikenya Thomas. She's 16 and she's been in foster since she was 4. Her birthday is June 21, 1999. She lives in Tampa, Fl. Anything you else need to know just text me on here. Thank you..

Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article.
Please note, YOU are NOT a reliable source, and cannot be consulted by any reader, anywhere in the world, at any time of day, at any point in the future, to verify the information Arjayay (talk) 16:16, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2016

Hello Alrahim Wright III Also Alot of nusic is a search Entity on googles Product and is asciated with Alrahim

AlrahimWrightIII (talk) 02:32, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 02:36, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Ambiguous wording

"At around 12:30 a.m. (PST) on February 8, 2009, Brown and his then-girlfriend, recording artist Rihanna, had an argument which escalated into physical violence, leaving Rihanna with visible facial injuries which required hospitalization."

English stylists typically recommend using direct, active verbs and human subjects rather than abstract nouns. The sentence above seems to be obfuscating what actually happened. "Physical violence" is tucked into a relative clause modifying "argument." Who performed this act of violence? The only grammatical subjects are Brown AND Rihanna, paired together as the subject of "had." Why not just say,

"At around 12:30 a.m. (PST) on February 8, 2009, Brown and his then-girlfriend, recording artist Rihanna, had an argument which escalated into physical violence. Brown struck Rihanna, leaving her with visible facial injuries which required hospitalization."

Because do we actually know if Brown struck Rihanna? Also, I don't think it's that neutral of writing, nor is it a big deal. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 03:53, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

At what point does there need to be another page created just for his legal issues?  ;) Maxxx12345 (talk) 01:10, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

New legal issue and police standoff

I'm a bit surprised that there's no mention of the just-past police standoff and the alleged violence that apparently triggered it, even though there is a

tag on it. Some of the pieces seem to be well-documented. Google news links --Haruo (talk) 15:30, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

there's this and lots more... http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-chris-brown-gun-20160830-snap-story.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.247.9.164 (talk) 00:19, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2016

I would like to edit the filmography of the artist's page. I want to edit because some missing information on the page, i do not want to pulse false information. ans: The filmography needs one information. Chris Brown appears in one episode of Real Husbands of Hollywood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Husbands_of_Hollywood#Guest_stars BlackMaster16 (talk) 19:43, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

 Not done This is not the right page to request additional user rights.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add Real Husbands of Hollywood between Tosh.0 and Tours".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 19:48, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2016

I would like to edit the filmography of the artist's page. I want to edit because some missing information on the page, i do not want to pulse false information. ans: The filmography needs one information. Chris Brown appears in one episode of Real Husbands of Hollywood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Husbands_of_Hollywood#Guest_stars BlackMaster16 (talk) 20:07, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:38, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

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Chris vs riri

Why Chris brown and rihanna get married we had enough Nash (talk) 17:43, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

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added family member Jordan kudyanyemba

77.246.49.30 (talk) 18:49, 13 May 2017 (UTC)———Jordan kudyanyemba also known as king_slay_savage on instagram is a family member—

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 00:31, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

@Kuyabribri: Actually, what I think this anon was trying to achieve was to get "Kudyanyemba" added to the "Relationships" section. Unfortunately, I could not find a Wikipedia article on the person and no reliable sources. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 01:19, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Wrong ping. Sorry. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 01:19, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Shows and Movies

Chris Brown starred on the show suite life of Zack and Cody Season 3 Episode 20. On this episode he appeared wearing a robe and shower cap. His purpose in being in the show was basically that he was being used as sort of a pawn to Maddie on London's good side. She chose Chris Brown to be on London's show. Zack had snuck out even though he was grounded to hook London up with the Cheetah Girls. He also starred on the movie Stomp the Yard. In this movie he played as the actor Columbus Shorts' younger brother. His role was cut short in the movie after a dance battle they participated in turned bad. The opposing team was upset at the fact that they lost the battle in their own club. So, at when the winning team was on their way out, the team that lost came out and attacked them and in the crossfire Chris Brown was shot dead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.86.17.38 (talk) 00:30, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Good story line Young grizzle (talk) 17:43, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Chris brown had also been an supporting actor 🎭 in the movie thing like a man where he plays a funny character who sleeps with a women who he met in a club,in the movie in the morning we see the women wanting more than just a one night but Mr brown who plays the men leaves her bedroom while she's at the bathroom. Chris breezy (talk) 20:19, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Not a rapper

Not a rapper Main occupation is not rapper Switch it around.

| occupation =

• Singer
• Songwriter
• Rapper
• Dancer
• Actor

Is an American singer, songwriter, rapper, dancer, and actor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr. Juelz (talk • contribs) 16:00, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Well in the past years Mr brown has been given the title a RAPPER which is when the name Breezy was given by social media ethics Chris breezy (talk) 20:21, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

chris brown fans

Breezy has been laying low after the Rihanna incident ,but rose to fame with his album F.A.M.E ever since people have never stopped falling in love with him and music 🎶 he inspires young south African girl named Noluthando Nhlangulela whom recently sent a letter to him through twitter the youngster adds that she believes she can make it too.as her role model breezy's background did not stop him ,she tells how she wants to be great dancer like him and wants to sing next to him one day and open her own clothing line like breezy.theres more she talks about the future that is inspired by Mr brown and concludes how happy she could be if she meet role model breezy unlike how she couldn't with michael Jackson.on top of that breezy has over 250000000 followers on Twitter and instagram😌 Chris breezy (talk) 20:34, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

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Cool Chris breezy (talk) 20:38, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Business

Chris Brown has his own clothing line and he never launch royalty clothing line her mom did his clothing line is black pyramid and it brings in 15-20 million every year Janeshak (talk) 04:47, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2018

I would like to change that it says one of his other names are Bris Breezy. Shouldn't it be Chris Breezy? 2407:7000:892B:5500:AD16:CEDE:D1F7:35CD (talk) 08:06, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

I removed the name Galobtter (pingó mió) 08:29, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 August 2018

in the greatest artist of all time list Chris Brown should have 19 million units in the uk instead of 10 million i have source to support this claim chart data is also a music sale database also https://twitter.com/chartdata/status/982634107694919680 he also just got a new certification too https://twitter.com/chartdata/status/1028711464649904129 Bhris breezy (talk) 04:35, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: Social media, including twitter.com, cannot be used as a reliable source. Waddie96 (talk) 08:58, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Chris Brown as rapper

The first sentence of the article should have the occupation "rapper" included since he mostly does hiphop nowadays Vipaah (talk) 23:43, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Out of place citation

The ninth citation (which is currently linked at the end of the awards section under overview) doesn't seem to be linking to anything that is relevant to what was in that sentence or even paragraph. I'm not sure if it was supposed to be linking something somewhere else and got put here instead, or what, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't need to be where it is. Just wanted to post this here because I'm not 100% sure. Browk2512 (talk) 21:06, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

other legal issues up to date?

Are the LA and Palm Beach incident descriptions up to date? As it stands according to the Wikipedia page he is currently out on bail in two different states. Did the judges in both cases sign off on the Europe trip? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gjxj (talk • contribs) 00:24, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Portrayal of Assault Against Rihanna

The media minimizes the severity of the assault against Rihanna and the Chris Brown article reflects that. The assault is often portrayed as a "beating" but the police reports would suggest that Chris Brown made threats against Rihanna's life and acted on them, which is illustrated by this article: http://www.mtv.com/news/1606481/chris-brown-police-report-provides-details-of-altercation/ . Included in the article are descriptions of Brown's threats against his then-girlfriend's life and his efforts to choke her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Msoots (talk • contribs) 23:30, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

WP:Due weight. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 04:26, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 January 2019

User:AshMusique removed "convicted felon" from the first line of Chris Brown's article, claiming it to be vandalism, despite it being true and a source being listed only 3 paragraphs below. https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/settlement-might-be-near-in-chris-brown-case.html

The first line should read "Christopher Maurice Brown (born May 5, 1989) is an American singer, songwriter, dancer, actor and convicted felon." BigCookie03 (talk) 18:55, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

 Doing..., other sources include https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/267595/chris-brown-sentenced-to-five-years-probation-and-community-labor ("After Brown pleaded guilty to felony assault in June") DannyS712 (talk) 19:39, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done DannyS712 (talk) 19:43, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Reverted per WP:LABEL. Sources usually do not refer to Brown as a convicted felon. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 20:32, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

And his domestic violence case is already noted in the lead. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 20:32, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

@Flyer22 Reborn: But WP:LABEL doesn't prohibit this. The text of that section is copied below. I'd won't revert you on this, because I don't care strongly about this, but the use of "convicted felon" is not prohibited. (Also, even if it was, its still not vandalism). --DannyS712 (talk) 21:09, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Value-laden labels—such as calling an organization a cult, an individual a racist, terrorist, or freedom fighter, or a sexual practice a perversion—may express contentious opinion and are best avoided unless widely used by reliable sources to describe the subject, in which case use in-text attribution. Avoid myth in its informal sense, and establish the scholarly context for any formal use of the term.
The prefix pseudo‑ indicates that something is false or spurious, which may be debatable. The suffix ‑gate suggests the existence of a scandal. Use these in articles only when they are in wide use externally (e.g. Gamergate controversy), with in-text attribution if in doubt. Rather than describing an individual using the subjective and vague term controversial, instead give readers information about relevant controversies. Make sure, as well, that reliable sources establish the existence of a controversy and that the term is not used to grant a fringe viewpoint undue weight.
With regard to the term "pseudoscience": per the policy Neutral point of view, pseudoscientific views "should be clearly described as such". Per the content guideline fringe theories, the term "pseudoscience" may be used to distinguish fringe theories from mainstream science, supported by reliable sources.

DannyS712, WP:Words to watch is not about prohibiting. It's a guideline, not a policy. See the bolded line in the lead of that guideline. And as has been noted at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Words to watch more than once, we are not going to include every example of a term to watch or avoid. We give a few examples in each section. The examples given at WP:LABEL should be enough to know that "convicted felon" should be avoided in this case. WP:LABEL is officially titled "Contentious labels." Calling Brown a convicted felon in the lead sentence is clearly a contentious label. Like I stated above, he is not routinely called a convicted felon in sources. It's not like it's terminology that is commonly associated with him. Furthermore, "convicted felon" is vague. It's much better to explain the issue lower in the lead, as is currently done. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 21:20, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

@Flyer22 Reborn: I understand that it does not include everything, but I think that, given that "convicted felon" is not a subjective term (he can be clearly shown to have been convicted) it doesn't apply. Regardless, I only made the edit because of the edit request. I believe it should be included, but to avoid causing a controversy in the lede of a famous BLP, I'll stand by your decision to remove it. --DannyS712 (talk) 21:23, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

DannyS712, many people would argue that "terrorist" is not a subjective term. But it's still listed as an example at WP:LABEL. Even when many or most sources describe someone or an organization with the term "terrorist," the word "terrorist" may be avoided in the lead sentence and the terrorist matter explained lower in the lead. But let's put WP:LABEL aside for a moment. MOS:LEADBIO states, "Well-publicized recent events affecting a subject, whether controversial or not, should be kept in historical perspective. What is most recent is not necessarily what is most notable: new information should be carefully balanced against old, with due weight accorded to each." Given that Brown is not mainly referred to as a convicted felon, should "convicted felon" be in the first sentence? I think not. Similarly, we don't include any of Justin Bieber's legal issues in the first sentence or first paragraph of his Wikipedia article. MOS:OPENPARABIO states "the opening paragraph should establish notability, neutrally describe the person, and provide context." Many people who did not know of Brown came to know of him for his domestic violence case, but the domestic violence case is not why he is notable. He was WP:Notable before that. And calling Brown a convicted felon when he is not primarily referred to as such is not neutral. If he was a convicted murderer or rapist, it would be different. Not only because of how life-changing such matters are in terms of a person's public image and on legal grounds (not that the domestic violence case didn't significantly change Brown's public image), but also because sources would no doubt routinely describe him as a convicted murderer or a convicted rapist, which is not vague like "convicted felon" is. As for this, yes, I know that the addition was not vandalism. On a side note: Since this page is on my watchlist, I prefer to not be pinged to it. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 21:49, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Okay then. Thank you for showing me the error in my ways. I'll make sure to avoid such issues in the future. --DannyS712 (talk) 21:53, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree, Chris Brown is more notable to some (including myself) for his domestic abuse charges than his music, and his frequent appearances in the media relating to his criminal allegations makes him well known for this as well as his musical career. That being said, I agree that he is not generally referred to as "convicted felon" by the media so it could certainly be argued that he not be referred to as such at the top of his page, but many notable people are listed as things they are not notable for, such as side projects or failed singing careers, etc. I believe it is important enough information about his character to stay in the opening line. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BigCookie03 (talk • contribs) 22:16, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Regarding your "more notable to some (including myself) for his domestic abuse charges than his music" statement, well, I did state above that "Many people who did not know of Brown came to know of him for his domestic violence case, but the domestic violence case is not why he is notable." If you have any WP:Reliable sources stating that he is notable for his domestic violence case or more known for that case than anything else he's done, include them here. I still object to "convicted felon" being in the lead sentence, but a "mostly known for" piece could go in the lead's paragraph that concerns his domestic violence case. As for "but many notable people are listed as things they are not notable for, such as side projects or failed singing careers, etc.", it shouldn't be in the lead paragraph; this is per the MOS:OPENPARABIO guideline I pointed to. We include other material in the lead because, per WP:Lead, the lead should summarize the article's most important aspects, including any prominent controversy. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:04, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Just adding my two cents. My intent was not to vandalize the page when I made my edit. While reading about the latest R. Kelly controversies, I saw numerous references to Chris Brown. I do not follow Brown, but the two things I know him for are being a singer and his domestic violence incident. Personally I thought my edit was appropriate, but I understand other's view points on the subject. Dtaylor05 (talk) 16:36, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 January 2019

Under the 2015-present section where it saids On March 2016, On should say In.2600:1702:AB0:D890:B88A:F01D:27A5:8A75 (talk) 06:29, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 07:56, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Chris Brown partially a rapper

Chris Brown is rapping often and it should be included in the first sentence of this wiki. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vipaah (talk • contribs) 19:48, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

It's not something he's primarily known for. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:01, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 April 2019

chris brown's new album of indigo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:15C0:C356:1D80:70E0:1CD:E9CA (talk) 03:48, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2019

Change 90 to 91, in his Billboard Hot 100 Entries in the last intro paragraph. 173.88.89.162 (talk) 20:12, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

 Done Zingarese talk · contribs 21:42, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2019

According to Billboard, Brown has the seventh most Hot 100 entries on the chart with 93. (CHANGE 91 to 93) Love Yourz (talk) 20:10, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. NiciVampireHeart 21:51, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 December 2019

Chris brown now has 9 soul train music awards. 105.112.75.37 (talk) 21:24, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Danski454 (talk) 23:27, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Chris brown Wiki pic.

CAN YALL PLEASE UPDATE HIS Wiki picture. PLEASE AND THANK YOU KamKamanga (talk) 18:39, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

It's ayt I'll do so Kaygee Skidmore (talk) 17:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 June 2020

Chris Brown has received nine soul train awards not six. Joszy6 (talk) 00:01, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Chris Brown has received nine soul train awards. Joszy6 (talk) 00:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Jack Frost (talk) 00:13, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 June 2020

41.114.229.185 (talk) 18:05, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: Empty request... RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 18:21, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Convicted Felon

Why is the fact the he is a convicted felon listed in the first sentence description? It is already listed under legal problems. If this is the new prescedent then anyone listed on Wikipedia with a felony needs to have the same. Be consistent. Arddi0812 (talk) 16:28, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Christopher Maurice Brown (born May 5, 1989) is an American singer, songwriter, rapper, dancer, actor, and record producer. Arddi0812 (talk) 16:36, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Reverted per Talk:Chris Brown/Archive 4#Semi-protected edit request on 16 January 2019. Might need to take this to the WP:BLP noticeboard and/or start an RfC on it. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 03:38, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

His status as a convicted felon deserves first sentence treatment as it does for Martha Stewart, Bill Cosby, OJ Simpson, etc. I don’t see consensus here for its removal. Joey.J (talk) 23:47, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Joey.J, reverted. This is a no per what I've stated before. This is not at all the same as cases like Bill Cosby and O. J. Simpson.

I see that you've been problematic at BLP articles. If you WP:Edit war on this, you will likely be blocked again. Either way, I am taking this matter to the WP:BLP noticeboard. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 02:39, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Paris rape arrest

Why is there no mention of him being arrested for an allegation of rape in Paris in 2019 under his legal issues? Even though he was never charged he was arrested and investigated over a period of time, that should absolutely be mentioned. --2601:145:4380:79A0:8D7F:6129:F931:21D3 (talk) 05:06, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

List of banned countries

Please update list of banned countries. He is no longer banned in the UK. Was see in London on 7th of October 2020. Source: https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/07/chris-brown-london-spotted-mayfair-restaurant-banned-from-uk-13387958/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by JoseMartinez2020 (talk • contribs) 07:41, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Possible category addition

Since Chris Brown is placed in the categories 21st-century American criminals and Criminals from Virginia, and that he has a criminal record, should he also be added to the category American male criminals? 2001:569:78BA:4A00:2D46:7BC0:BE08:C7BC (talk) 06:50, 18 October 2020 (UTC) faiths boyfriend is chrisbrown faith met chris brown in 1989 in california australia.

Occupation For Chris Brown

Chris Brown has actually rapped on songs including "Ayo", "Look at Me Now", and "Till I Die", so can anybody here please add "rapper" to his occupation list? But don't list him as a rapper first, either list him as a rapper second after singer or list him as a rapper third after songwriter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.248.162.111 (talk) 18:56, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Update wikipedia Pic

PLEASEEEE CHANGE THIS Pic of chris. Its 2020 and this pic is like 8 years old and there are hundreds of recent better pictures than this one? Who runs this page anyways?? KamKamanga (talk) 02:19, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

This pic is dope💖💖 Mabornashie (talk) 22:24, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 April 2021

Brown has won several awards, including a Grammy Award, 18 BET Awards, four Billboard Music Awards, and thirteen Soul Train Music Awards. According to Billboard, Brown has the ninth most Billboard Hot 100 entries with 102.<ref>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Chris_Brown https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Billboard_Hot_100_chart_achievements_and_milestones Joszy6 (talk) 18:36, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

The facts are correct! Joszy6 (talk) 18:39, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: See this article. Sincerely, Deauthorized. (talk) 02:17, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Occupation For Chris Brown #2

Don't list "rapper" first in the occupation list for Chris Brown. He's still a singer, but he's an occasional rapper. Can you please fix that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:197:C17F:C7A0:4D73:E951:8B6D:EB27 (talk) 00:31, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

I made the correction and put singer as his first occupation--Twixister (talk) 12:18, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Is Chris Brown a rapper? If he's not a rapper, delete "rapper" in the first paragraph; If he is, so add "rapper" to the occupation list. HONDA Gang (Talk) 18:10, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 September 2021

Typo in section "legal issues": it says "Brown later said though his social media accounts ..." Padeck (talk) 22:44, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

All set. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:59, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Chris Brown

Chris Brown has won 13 Soul Train awards and 18 Bet awards. Correct/ Edit the error in the page. Joszy6 (talk) 00:35, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Chris Brown has won 13 Soul Train awards and 18 Bet awards.

Chris Brown has won 13 Soul Train awards and 18 Bet awards. Correct/ Edit the error in the page. Joszy6 (talk) 00:38, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 September 2021

Please, change “six Soul Train Music Awards” to thirteen Soul Train Music Awards, source: https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/chris-brown-her-win-big-2020-bet-soul-train-awards-see-complete-winners-list/4O6XOZY5FJAB7NJRFRH25VDZ6E/ Joszy6 (talk) 07:02, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:50, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 September 2021

Please change “15 BET Awards” to “18 BET Awards”, source: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/27/entertainment/bet-awards-2021-winners/index.html Joszy6 (talk) 23:12, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. That source shows only a single win. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:55, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 September 2021

Please change “15 BET Awards” to “18 BET Awards”. I got my information from a personal research but was unable to get a source to support my edit request. This wikipedia link below is my most reliable source for now: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Chris_Brown The current information that contains “15 BETAwards” is outdated. A personal research to verify my information would be great. Thank you! Joszy6 (talk) 18:38, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: A Wikipedia article, either from the English one or any others, is not acceptable per WP:CIRCULAR. A reliable source is required in order to submit an edit request. Asking assistance from other editors to find a source isn't a bad thing, but that should just be a normal section to this talk page, and not an edit request. Cheers! —Sirdog (talk) 19:16, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 October 2021

Please change “According to Billboard, Brown is one of the most influential and successful contemporary R&B singers of the early 21st century” to “According to Billboard, Brown is one of the most influential and successful contemporary R&B singers since the early 21st century” Change “of the early 21st century” to “since the early 21st century”. Here's the link: https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/the-juice/6251630/chris-browns-20-biggest-billboard-hits Joszy6 (talk) 09:20, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Rejected. Changing the word of to since would require additional and unnecessary edits to the sentence for correct language. To use of means Brown is considered one of the most influential contemporary R&B artists for/in this current century, the years 2001-2100. To use since means Brown is considered one of the most influential contemporary R&B artists at a time later than the start of the current century. As it currently reads, the sentence is accurate and does not require a change. Thanks, Heartmusic678 (talk) 14:20, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 November 2021

Adding a picture in the influence column. Ebk1997 (talk) 02:15, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Do you have a particular image in mind? Firefangledfeathers (talk) 02:19, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 November 2021

Please add this section to the page:

Legacy Chris Brown is one of the most successful artist of his generation. He was ranked by billboard as the number three top r&b/hip hop artist of the decade (2010s). He is the first R&B artist to reach 100 entries on the Billboard Hot 100 and has been praised by many of his colleagues in the industry. King of Pop and Legendary Singer, Michael Jackson wrote:

“Chris is a bright and shining star whom I enjoy watching perform. I am happy to have had a positive influence on him.”

Here are the links for this first paragraph: 1. https://djrobblog.com/archives/8562

2.https://www.billboard.com/charts/decade-end/hot-r-and-b-hip-hop-artists/

3.https://www.revolt.tv/news/2020/5/12/21256353/chris-brown-billboard-hot-100

4.https://www.capitalxtra.com/artists/chris-brown/news/reflects-michael-jackson-calling-him-bright-star/

Canadian rapper, Drake on introducing Chris Brown during the Los Angeles stop of his current tour with Migos described the singer as “one of the most talented human beings on the planet”. Drake tells the crowd at the Staples Center: “I want to share this moment with y’all tonight. This is something I waited a long time for. I got the utmost respect… I think this guy’s one of the most talented human beings on the planet. “I never really got my chance to show him. So I figured tonight, in Staples Center, with each and every one of y’all, it would be the perfect time to share this moment.”

Here is the link for this second paragraph: https://www.nme.com/news/music/watch-drake-bring-chris-brown-stage-2389721

English Singer and Songwriter, Ella Mai cited Chris Brown as an influence while celebrating the fact that Brown posted a video of himself, bopping to one of her songs tweeted “i remember being 13 with a pink ipod and the only music on it was @chrisbrown. HUGE inspiration to me! lost for words.” Other artists who have also cited him as an influence are: Justin Bieber, Bryson Tiller, Zayn Malik, Jacquees, Layton Greene and Jacob Latimore.

Here are the links for this third parparagraph:

1.https://www.rap-up.com/2017/10/01/chris-brown-previews-ella-mai-collaboration/

2.https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2019/05/04/justin-bieber-compares-defends-chris-brown-michael-jackson-tupac-shakur/1100307001/

3. https://www.vibe.com/gallery/you-should-know-bryson-tiller/brysontiller/

4.https://twitter.com/zaynmalik/status/96515310219313152

5.http://www.jacqueeslive.com/about

6.https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/layton-greene-remix-viral-sensation-interview-8095428/

7.https://urbanbridgez.com/2020/11/08/ub-revisit-jacob-latimore-talks-music-acting-and-chris-brown/ Joszy6 (talk) 00:08, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Please, The title of the section should be legacy. Joszy6 (talk) 00:11, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:19, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

PROPOSITION TO ADD A NEW SECTION TITLED “LEGACY” TO CHRIS BROWN'S PAGE.

Good day, I suggest that a new section titled “Legacy” should be inserted in American R&B Singer, Chris Brown's page. The write - up below are the facts to support my proposition as well as the contents that I desire to add to the proposed section:

Chris Brown is one of the most successful artist of his generation. He was ranked by Billboard as the number three top r&b/hip hop artist of the decade (2010s). He is the first R&B artist to reach 100 entries on the Billboard Hot 100 and has been praised by many of his colleagues in the industry. King of Pop and Legendary Singer, Michael Jackson wrote:

“Chris is a bright and shining star whom I enjoy watching perform. I am happy to have had a positive influence on him.” Here are the links for this first paragraph: 1. https://djrobblog.com/archives/8562

2.https://www.billboard.com/charts/decade-end/hot-r-and-b-hip-hop-artists/

3.https://www.revolt.tv/news/2020/5/12/21256353/chris-brown-billboard-hot-100

4.https://www.capitalxtra.com/artists/chris-brown/news/reflects-michael-jackson-calling-him-bright-star/

Canadian rapper, Drake on introducing Chris Brown during the Los Angeles stop of his current tour with Migos described the singer as “one of the most talented human beings on the planet”. Drake tells the crowd at the Staples Center: “I want to share this moment with y’all tonight. This is something I waited a long time for. I got the utmost respect… I think this guy’s one of the most talented human beings on the planet. “I never really got my chance to show him. So I figured tonight, in Staples Center, with each and every one of y’all, it would be the perfect time to share this moment.”

Here is the link for this second paragraph: https://www.nme.com/news/music/watch-drake-bring-chris-brown-stage-2389721

English Singer and Songwriter, Ella Mai cited Chris Brown as an influence while celebrating the fact that Brown posted a video of himself, bopping to one of her songs tweeted “i remember being 13 with a pink ipod and the only music on it was @chrisbrown. HUGE inspiration to me! lost for words.” Other artists who have also cited him as an influence are: Justin Bieber, Bryson Tiller, Zayn Malik, Jacquees, Layton Greene and Jacob Latimore.

Here are the links for this third parparagraph:

1.https://www.rap-up.com/2017/10/01/chris-brown-previews-ella-mai-collaboration/

2.https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2019/05/04/justin-bieber-compares-defends-chris-brown-michael-jackson-tupac-shakur/1100307001/

3. https://www.vibe.com/gallery/you-should-know-bryson-tiller/brysontiller/

4.https://twitter.com/zaynmalik/status/96515310219313152

5.http://www.jacqueeslive.com/about

6.https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/layton-greene-remix-viral-sensation-interview-8095428/

7.https://urbanbridgez.com/2020/11/08/ub-revisit-jacob-latimore-talks-music-acting-and-chris-brown/ Joszy6 (talk) 13:52, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 December 2021

Can you please add Big Sean? I think they have a close connection. StevenIs8000 (talk) 14:23, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 December 2021

change his incorrectly listed year of birth (1989). His correct year of birth is 1985. 2600:1702:1C90:7FA0:CBF:53A4:65D7:786A (talk) 08:55, 26 December 2021 (UTC).

Please provide a WP:Reliable source to confirm that date of birth. noq (talk) 11:10, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Brownhelnight.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:22, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Somebody PLEADE remove all of the fancruft.

Hi, I’m just a fellow editor on Wikipedia, and I’ve noticed that this article contains A LOT of fancruft, including sources that don’t even relate to the content at hand, dead links, and just all around a lot of BS. I don’t know how to source personally and I know that would make me look bad in comparison to a vandal who knows to do basic sourcing codes. Regardless, thank you to everyone involved. Aardwolf68 (talk) 10:33, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

You are removing full sections of sourced content, replacing it with a ton of unsourced stuff, while also edit warring. None of the dozens of sources that you are removing consists of dead links, or things that don’t relate to the content at hand. For example you removed: "Being described by media outlets and critics as one of the biggest talents of his time in urban music, Brown gained a cult following, and wide comparisons to Michael Jackson for his stage presence as a singer-dancer", because according to you it's "fancruft" and "BS", but the source put for it completely supports it, by saying: "Chris Brown has experienced several undeniable peaks throughout his career, as well as a few notable valleys. In spite of the darker days, Breezy has retained a loyal fanbase of devotees, damn near religious in their fervor for the multitalented artist. It's not entirely hard to see why. Throughout his near-two-decade-deep career, Chris Brown has been at the center of countless hits, singing his heart out, spitting bars with slept-on precision, and tearing up the stage with enough prowess to draw comparisons to the late Michael Jackson. Anyone who has ever seen Chris Brown live would probably attest to his showmanship, and not even his haters can deny that he is indeed objectively talented"

So please, stop this mess.--Morce Library (talk) 12:03, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

You listed ONE source on a content that requires multiple reliable sources, check Tom Brady's page, for example. You don't get to pick and choose what sources fit where and expand the article without reason outside of your personal biases towards Chris Brown. You can enjoy him as an artist, but don't go pushing your beliefs on an encyclopedic page. Aardwolf68 (talk) 06:24, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

"Yellow journalism" claim is unsupported by citation and inaccurate

All of the bad press for Brown is supported by police reports and there is support for this claim. It makes this article sound like a piece form his PR rep and should be deleted in its entirety.

It is very clearly biased and false, which is especially disappointing as this is a protected article CLPond (talk) 04:21, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. It is frankly inexcusable, showing a tremendous amount of bias on the part of whoever wrote it, and is wholly inappropriate for the article. It should be removed immediately. Falling and Taking (talk) 01:55, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

That kind of stuff, and more, is largely being written by an account with multiple socks who's acting dumb, and his name is Morse Library. Something needs to be done about him and his threats against me for removing his unsourced and extremely biased content. Aardwolf68 (talk) 06:25, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 March 2019 and 10 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MyeshaJones.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 17:36, 16 January 2022 (UTC)